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Featured The Power Of Circular Reasoning

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Skwim, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    There is no worldwide flood sediment.

    Sumer had a robust civilization long before Genesis or Exodus.
     
  2. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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  3. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    The Black Sea breech was a slow moving flood. People living on the banks had plenty of time to move their herds and families to higher ground.

    The event triggered migration and an uptick in agriculture elsewhere,
     
  4. Left Coast

    Left Coast Active Member
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    Perhaps not, but that is not the point. The point is that as much as possible, or beliefs should align with the evidence.
     
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  5. Left Coast

    Left Coast Active Member
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    Okay then we're just using different definitions. I think blind faith is bad and should be avoided.
     
  6. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    I do too...…….
     
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  7. Left Coast

    Left Coast Active Member
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    The fact that you think the existence of your God is preferable to his non-existence does not mean it is more likely or more reasonable.

    It would be preferable if all my student loan debt were paid off right now. But it isn't.

    If that's the case, then he should have no problem with people who aren't convinced of his existence or the validity of a book that advocates slavery and genocide. If he has a problem with those things, that says much more about him than any non-believer.



    I don't mean to suggest that there is no suffering in the world or that life is a bed of roses. Only to suggest that interdependence can be and is beautiful.

    If God has the power to stop that suffering, and chooses not to, he is absolutely responsible.

    There are many, many threads here by people who have explained evolution over and over. I suggest you start there. Or go take a class at a local college.

    Science does not blind us, it helps us understand the world better than any other system anyone has come up with. If you have to bad-mouth science in order to prop up your religion, that again says more about you than it does me.

    You don't have the slightest clue what comes from nothing because you've never seen nothing. Every one of our experiences in this life is of things coming from other things.

    Oh you're right, maybe he doesn't. But if he doesn't want to know us, then punishing us for not knowing him is the height of cruelty and injustice.

    Zero evidence for that, yet again.

    And I gave you an alternative explanation that actually matches the facts.

    I'm willing to grant that a large flood could have planted the seed of the myth - again, floods happen all over. But there's no evidence the entire Earth was actually flooded to the tops of the highest mountains.

    Comparing humans to spiders? Not a great analogy.

    Artificially created problem by God's horrific choice. Hey, no ones around to take take of these little babies because I killed their parents...oh well, guess I just have to kill them too!

    Hideous.

    Large if with zero evidence to support it.

    Again, making offending the ruler a capital crime is the kind of thing they do in the most brutal dictatorships in the world. That is the god you want us to take advice from and worship.



    No, he's worse. He slaughters people by the millions...for offending him.

    No, it's not fair at all. Creating a sentient life doesn't give you unilateral authority over whether that life lives or dies based on whether she lives up to your standards. Do you think parents have that right over their children?

    No, it's obvious if you stop reflexively giving God a pass because "he's God" and think through it for 5 seconds. If I have the power to create a sentient life, that doesn't give me the right to just kill that life whenever and however I'd like. Can you imagine? That is a horrific vision of how society should function.

    No, the Bible is full of claims. You are used to regarding it as evidence because you already believe in it. What we need is evidence that what the Bible claims is actually true.

    If you think I'm repugnant to your God and deserve to die because I don't believe the claims of a book allegedly about him, again that says vastly more about you and your God than me.
     
    #47 Left Coast, Jun 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
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  8. Left Coast

    Left Coast Active Member
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    Did I claim my religion/worldview is the only source of true happiness? If so, then please, call me out.
     
  9. Catholicus

    Catholicus Active Member

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    That God exists, is proved by the fact that the universe exists.

    That Christianity is true, is proved by the fact that witnesses of Jesus's Resurrection died for their belief in it - e.g. Simon Peter, James.
     
  10. Rival

    Rival Noachide
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    People died for Judaism, Islam, various Paganisms and for certain political ideologies. It makes them no more true. We also cannot verify Christian martyrdoms as none of them that pertain to the Apostles, Paul or such are written in the Greek Scriptures or anywhere else by outside authorities.
     
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  11. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    That is not proof of the existence of god. The gospels were written well after Jesus died, there is no evidence he resurrected.
     
  12. Catholicus

    Catholicus Active Member

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    God sent the Flood because people had become so evil that they were all going to Hell - to prevent that happening any further, God brought the curtain down on the show. This is called "being cruel to be kind."

    "God is Love" (says the Bible), therefore God is Liberty, therefore has given us free will - WE are responsible for the evil in the world.

    The Biblical statement "Love your neighbour as yourself" forbids slavery and genocide.

    Science helps us to understand nature - it has nothing to say about ethics.

    If God didn't exist, we would be of no more lasting significance than spiders - only God gives human history any meaning or purpose - Nature doesn't.
     
  13. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    That is just your belief you have no evidence to back it up.
     
  14. Catholicus

    Catholicus Active Member

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    So what DID create the universe ? If not God, it has to be blind Chance - which is far-fetched.

    The Gospels may have been written-down well after Jesus died (MAY - no one knows, in fact), but are based on older oral testimony, clearly that of eye-witnesses.
     
  15. Catholicus

    Catholicus Active Member

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    The evidence is that of the science of Genetics, which proves that an ancient catastrophe wiped out all but a few dozen human beings.
     
  16. Catholicus

    Catholicus Active Member

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    Simon Peter's remains (indicating his martyrdom) were dug up from beneath the high altar of St Peter's, Rome in 1967.

    Why should he (and others) have died for a belief in Jesus's resurrection if they knew it didn't happen ?

    Clearly, they were certain that it had happened.
     
  17. Catholicus

    Catholicus Active Member

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    "Why does something exist, rather than nothing ?" (Leibniz)

    God is the only reasonable explanation for anything's existing.
     
  18. Catholicus

    Catholicus Active Member

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    The existence of the supernatural is proven by the fact that we all constantly have to make choices between good and evil - choices that have nothing to do with our survival or prosperity; are, in fact, spiritual (i.e. supernatural) choices.
     
  19. Rival

    Rival Noachide
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    Many people are certain about many things; this doesn't make them true. As I said, other people have died for their faiths.
     
  20. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    . Yes... floods are always slow, especially when they carry so much silt.
     
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