The birthday of Jesus?

[DavidFirth]

Do you know why the exact date of Jesus' death is recorded in scripture, but not the date of his birth?

Jews were commanded not to adopt the ways of the pagan nations around them.

He told them in Deuteronomy 18:9-13....
“When you have entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the detestable practices of those nations. 10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, 11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you. 13 You should prove yourself blameless before Jehovah your God."

You can see references to spiritistic practices here, such as magic, omens, sorcery, divination, spirit mediums and fortune tellers.

Astrology comes under those practices too. It was astrology that made the recording of a birthdate so important. In order to cast a horoscope, the date of a child's birth was used to determine their future. Jews therefore did not celebrate birthdays because of God's law not to follow the pagans in their spiritistic customs. The cake...the candles...the birthday wishes....all had to do with spiritism. It isn't the harmless thing it is portrayed to be. Its roots are as pagan as the celebration of Christmas itself. Under its original label, "dies natalis Solis Invicti" it was "the birthday of the sun god"....which they simply turned into "the birthday of the son of God"...they didn't change much else..

According to The New Catholic Encyclopedia....."the birth of Christ was assigned the date of the winter solstice (December 25 in the Julian Calendar) because on this day, as the sun began its return to northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the invincible sun). On Dec. 25, 274, Aurelian had proclaimed the sun-god principal patron of the empire and dedicated a temple to him in the Campus Martius. Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Rome."

It is the reason why "the Church" changed their day of worship to Sunday. No one complained.....I wonder why?

Why does your church teach that billions of years are in Genesis that aren't there? Or have you guys changed your teaching in the last 10 years?

 

[Deeje]

Why does your church teach that billions of years are in Genesis that aren't there? Or have you guys changed your teaching in the last 10 years?

It doesn't teach that the Genesis "days" were 24 hour periods. The earth is not 6000 years old and Genesis doesn't say that it is.

 

[DavidFirth]

It doesn't teach that the Genesis "days" were 24 hour periods. The earth is not 6000 years old and Genesis doesn't say that it is.

No, but you dodged the question. And the Hebrew used in Genesis definitely does translate to 24 hour days.

A JW came in my house 10 years ago and told my wife that each day of creation was actually 1 billion years. I threw her out of my house and told her not to ever come back. She never has, thank God.

 

[Deeje]

No, but you dodged the question. And the Hebrew used in Genesis definitely does translate to 24 hour days.

A JW came in my house 10 years ago and told my wife that each day of creation was actually 1 billion years. I threw her out of my house and told her not to ever come back. She never has, thank God.

You wouldn't be the first or the last to do something like that....Jesus' disciples experienced the same thing no doubt. (John 15:18-21)

Have you ever examined the evidence for yourself? The Hebrew word 'yom' used in Genesis has a few different meanings if you care to check.

Also, the first verse in Genesis is a simple statement of the creation of the universe, including the earth. The rest details the preparation of the earth, ready for habitation. There is no timeframe mentioned between verse 1 and the rest. It could well have been millions of years....even though it doesn't say, there is room for speculation.

The Bible agrees with provable science.....it has to because God is the inventor of science. To stubbornly refuse to consider the possibilities and plant your head in the sand is not the way to educate yourself. It is the way to prove that you cannot defend your faith. Our faith cannot be blind.

 

[DavidFirth]

You wouldn't be the first or the last to do something like that....Jesus' disciples experienced the same thing no doubt. (John 15:18-21)

Have you ever examined the evidence for yourself? The Hebrew word 'yom' used in Genesis has a few different meanings if you care to check.

Also, the first verse in Genesis is a simple statement of the creation of the universe, including the earth. The rest details the preparation of the earth, ready for habitation. There is no timeframe mentioned between verse 1 and the rest. It could well have been millions of years....even though it doesn't say, there is room for speculation.

The Bible agrees with provable science.....it has to because God is the inventor of science. To stubbornly refuse to consider the possibilities and plant your head in the sand is not the way to educate yourself. It is the way to prove that you cannot defend your faith. Our faith cannot be blind.

I know arguing with a JW is a waste of time since they thoroughly brainwash you about such things but I will say this. You're wrong. Billions of years do not fit anywhere in Genesis. You're compromising God's word on what scientists think. No way I will ever do that.

 

[Deeje]

I know arguing with a JW is a waste of time since they thoroughly brainwash you about such things but I will say this. You're wrong. Billions of years do not fit anywhere in Genesis. You're compromising God's word on what scientists think. No way I will ever do that.

You've never done any research have you? You are welcome to your view but there is no compromise if you bother to see for yourself. The ones who are 'brainwashed' are the ones who are afraid do their homework.

 

[Desert Snake]

You've never done any research have you? You are welcome to your view but there is no compromise if you bother to see for yourself. The ones who are 'brainwashed' are the ones who are afraid do their homework.

Why don't you just tell us your theory?

 

[Desert Snake]

Adam and Eve weren't human, then? What were they?

 

[DavidFirth]

You've never done any research have you? You are welcome to your view but there is no compromise if you bother to see for yourself. The ones who are 'brainwashed' are the ones who are afraid do their homework.

I have researched it for myself. The original Hebrew translates as a 24 hour day because the same word is used elsewhere in the OT and it obviously means 24 hour day. There is no getting around it, there are no millions of years in the Genesis account. It just is not there.

 

[DavidFirth]

Adam and Eve weren't human, then? What were they?

Genesis is 100% clear about who and what they were. They were not ape like creatures. To think they were according to Genesis is ridiculous.

 

[Deeje]

Why don't you just tell us your theory?

A review of Strongs Concordance reveals that the word "yowm" can mean a 24 hour day, but that is not the only meaning as it goes on to say....

Yowm can mean "day, time, year"

"יוֹם yôwm, yome; from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figurative (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverb):—age, always, chronicals, continually(-ance), daily, ((birth-), each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), elder, × end, evening, (for) ever(-lasting, -more), × full, life, as (so) long as (... live), (even) now, old, outlived, perpetually, presently, remaineth, ×required, season, × since, space, then, (process of) time, as at other times, in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), × whole ( age), (full) year(-ly), younger."

If taken figuratively, then the Genesis account fits the scientific definition of an old earth....and a slow appearance of creation over an extended period of time. God doesn't have to be the invisible magician "poofing" things into existence with a word. He can be a careful and deliberated creator giving time and attention to each of his creations....including man. This fits his personality as one who gives attention to detail.

Adam and Eve weren't human, then? What were they?

Adam and Eve were very human. They are the last of the Creator's works before he rested to allow time for a few things to be worked out. You will notice in Genesis that there is no declaration concerning the seventh day. All the other days were declared "good" and the sixth day was "very good". So God was satisfied with all that he had done. But the seventh day has no conclusion.....because I believe we are still in it. There is mention of God's rest day still continuing in the Bible....and that makes perfect sense......according to scripture, the rule of God's Kingdom will return everything back to the way it should have been at the beginning. Only then when everything is tried and tested, will God be able to declare the conclusion of the seventh day..."very good".

 

[Deeje]

Genesis is 100% clear about who and what they were. They were not ape like creatures. To think they were according to Genesis is ridiculous.

The bible does not support evolution. The slow and careful process of an artisan is more in keeping with the personality of God. He created every living thing individually......and beautifully.

 

[JesusBeliever]

But the seventh day has no conclusion.....because I believe we are still in it. There is mention of God's rest day still continuing in the Bible....and that makes perfect sense......

Hi Deeje, this is actually a very interesting observation and only something that was pointed out to me recently. I agree it makes perfect sense and helps one to make sense of Hebrews 4.

While getting the verse I noticed it said that it was a "Promise" left to us. Of entering in "Today" (Hebrews 4:7).

Very interesting indeed!

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, and we have done one entire 360 degree turn since about 24,000 BC, ..

You are not wholly correct here. Since 24,000 BC will mean 26,000 years. In 26,000 years we have done 360 +14.4 degrees (14.4 for the extra 1,000 years). Just fun.

 

[SalixIncendium]

When we are placing the birthday of Jesus, bearing in mind that the Gregorian calendar wasn't introduced until 1582, are we transposing correctly?

Gregorian Calendar - Old Style and New Style dates - Wikipedia

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

When do you think Jesus was actually born sense the bible doesn't say? What does any Christian or non Christian think about the fact that December 25 is the birthday of all the other Pagan Gods? WHy was it decided that it would be celebrated on the 25th?

Not all of the other pagan gods, but Mithras. It was Mithraism that Paul melded Jewish Christianity with, in part, I presume, because the Roman center for Mithraism was in his home town of Tarsus. And further because Mithraism was favored by the Roman upper class, especially in the military, and Paul was of the upper class being Herodian and a Roman citizen by that birthright. In fact, I know of no Judeans who were Roman citizens except for Herodians.

 

[Augustus]

Not all of the other pagan gods, but Mithras. It was Mithraism that Paul melded Jewish Christianity with, in part, I presume, because the Roman center for Mithraism was in his home town of Tarsus.

Apart from there is no evidence for or reason to believe any of this.

 

[David1967]

When do you think Jesus was actually born sense the bible doesn't say? What does any Christian or non Christian think about the fact that December 25 is the birthday of all the other Pagan Gods? WHy was it decided that it would be celebrated on the 25th?

Sept. 25

 

[metis]

Sept. 25

Nope, March 9th, which is also when my birthday is. And it's appropriate since he and I are drinking partners, and the reason I chose to friend him is because I can get an unlimited supply of wine.

 

[David1967]

You've never done any research have you? You are welcome to your view but there is no compromise if you bother to see for yourself. The ones who are 'brainwashed' are the ones who are afraid do their homework.

I think God has probably been in the creation business for longer than we can conceive of. And I certainly don't think He woke up in the dark some 6000 years ago and said "I think I'll make something today".