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Featured The birthday of Jesus?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, Aug 31, 2017.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    When do you think Jesus was actually born sense the bible doesn't say? What does any Christian or non Christian think about the fact that December 25 is the birthday of all the other Pagan Gods? WHy was it decided that it would be celebrated on the 25th?
     
  2. Mister Silver

    Mister Silver Faith's Nightmare

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    There are many theories as to when he was born, but we do not have an exact date.

    December 25th was only chosen to coincide with the pagan Yule, so as to make conversion from paganism to christianity easier.
     
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  3. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Thankyou.
     
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  4. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I don't think the date matters at all. People do not go to Church or Mass to celebrate because it's December 25th. If they took the date off the calendar, the people would still get together to celebrate Christ's birth. The argument between dates is silly when discussing the reason behind the events that is assumed to have happened on one day as opposed to another.
     
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  5. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    It is 9 months after the Annunciation on March 25th
     
  6. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    The day at one time (6,000 years ago) was the day of vernal equinox. It went back due to precession of equinox, but the European pagans did not correct the calendar and continued to celebrate Yule on that day.

    On the other hand, Indian Aryans corrected the date at least twice by moving the calendar back by one month each time. From Orion to Pleiades and from Pleiades to Arietis. At that time Indian astronomers went by asterisms. Now we go by zodiac, so we have not made the current change, i.e., from Arietis to Pisces.

    So, Christmas is the uncorrected day of vernal equinox of 6,000 years ago.

    "Pleiades may have started the year at the time the Vedas were compiled, presumably at the vernal equinox), but, in more recent compilations, the start of the nakshatras list is the point on the ecliptic directly opposite to the star Spica called Chitrā in Sanskrit, which would be Ashvinī, an asterism that is part of the modern constellation Aries, and these compilations therefore may have been compiled during the centuries when the sun was passing through the area of the constellation Aries at the time of the vernal equinox."
    Nakshatra - Wikipedia

    Of course, the Wikipedia information is not correct because the first clear asterism for the beginning of the year was Orion, though there are indications in RigVeda that at one time vernal equinox fell in the Aterism of Castor and Pollux - that will be 8,000 year ago. The reason why the European pagans did not correct the calendar was that they had left the main Aryan body by that time and had moved West (from Caspian steppes to Balkans). That was the time of bifurcation.
     
    #6 Aupmanyav, Sep 1, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
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  7. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    This is probably correct in spirit, but it's the winter solstice that occurs in late December, not the vernal equinox.

    The vernal equinox is tied to Easter, which is set on the first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox in late March.
     
  8. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, don't care and don't see the point of your question. I do think it important that we pick out a day and celebrate Christ's birth on that day. As far as the commercialization and Santa Claus go I would just as soon see all that die out. It clouds the whole purpose of celebrating the savior's birthday. I guess that junk was brought in for people who don't believe or have serious doubt so they would have something to celebrate.
     
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  9. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

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    Out of curiosity: Why did you choose not to look it up yourself?
     
  10. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    I was curious what yall would say. I don't always do well with searches.
     
  11. JesusBeliever

    JesusBeliever Active Member

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    Hi there, I read an interesting booklet on this subject a few years back. A man online had done a very in-depth study which was certainly quite convincing. I think he concluded from his study that Jesus was born on the 29th September which I think was the Feast of Trumpets of that year. And that it was about the 25th of December when the Magi from the east arrived bearing gifts. If you'd like to read it I could find you the link.
     
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  12. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Plus it was a day off from work in the Roman Empire so Christians could go to church and celebrate Jesus' birth even though no one knows when he was born. "Christmas" essentially is "the mass of Christ", which is a day of celebration on the liturgical calendar.
     
  13. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    It strikes me as odd that Christ's birth was allegedly a significant event, yet his birth date is barely even remembered.
     
  14. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    I was curious what yall would say. I don't always do well with searches.
    OK
     
  15. JesusBeliever

    JesusBeliever Active Member

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  16. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Today, but that was not the case 6,000 years ago. The seasons have rolled back by three months since then. We have done one quarter of the cycle since then. The whole cycle (Precession of equinox), is of 25,000 years.

    The clearest indication of the change in the scheme of two halves of the year is shown in the image below.
    We had to do this to align the ritual cycle with the seasons.
    In Aryan times - Devayana/Pitriyana, starting from the vernal equinox.
    In later Hindu/Puranic times - Uttarayana and Dakshinayana, starting from Winter solstice.

    [​IMG]

    If you go by the Hindu division of the year in two halves, the birth of Jesus is still the beginning of the year (except for three days).
     
    #16 Aupmanyav, Sep 1, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  17. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

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    I believe that I've referenced this BAR Article in the past.
     
  18. JesusBeliever

    JesusBeliever Active Member

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    I should probably add, that I didn't intend this as support for the Christmas Celebration, as I'm aware that the 25th December already had pagan roots and just as many point out it was never commissioned in Scripture as something we must observe. (Romans 14:5-6) I just find the timing of the Magi arriving bearing gifts for the Christ and by extension his family, and the exchanging of gifts at Christmas an interesting coincidence.

    What especially stands out to me about this whole topic is how the Magi knew that it was the star of the "King of the Jews" (Matthew 2:2). As the article suggests they may have learned this from the Prophet Daniel who prophesied about the appearing of the Messiah (Christ) several centuries prior.
     
  19. Deeje

    Deeje Deeje
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    Do you know why the exact date of Jesus' death is recorded in scripture, but not the date of his birth?

    Jews were commanded not to adopt the ways of the pagan nations around them.

    He told them in Deuteronomy 18:9-13....
    “When you have entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the detestable practices of those nations. 10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, 11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you. 13 You should prove yourself blameless before Jehovah your God."

    You can see references to spiritistic practices here, such as magic, omens, sorcery, divination, spirit mediums and fortune tellers.

    Astrology comes under those practices too. It was astrology that made the recording of a birthdate so important. In order to cast a horoscope, the date of a child's birth was used to determine their future. Jews therefore did not celebrate birthdays because of God's law not to follow the pagans in their spiritistic customs. The cake...the candles...the birthday wishes....all had to do with spiritism. It isn't the harmless thing it is portrayed to be. Its roots are as pagan as the celebration of Christmas itself. Under its original label, "dies natalis Solis Invicti" it was "the birthday of the sun god"....which they simply turned into "the birthday of the son of God"...they didn't change much else..

    According to The New Catholic Encyclopedia....."the birth of Christ was assigned the date of the winter solstice (December 25 in the Julian Calendar) because on this day, as the sun began its return to northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the invincible sun). On Dec. 25, 274, Aurelian had proclaimed the sun-god principal patron of the empire and dedicated a temple to him in the Campus Martius. Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Rome."

    It is the reason why "the Church" changed their day of worship to Sunday. No one complained.....I wonder why?
     
  20. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    Yes, and we have done one entire 360 degree turn since about 24,000 BC, but neither of those dates are relevant regarding an event that allegedly occurred 2000 years ago and wasn't assigned a calendar date until after that.
     
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