Shoe is on the other foot: Prove there is not God.

[Archer]

I disagree and if this thread were not 46 pages long I might attempt to find it.

 

[Humanistheart]

I disagree and if this thread were not 46 pages long I might attempt to find it.

Well if you did and I missed as you claim then do quote me the post #, or rewrite your defence of the currently debunked christian god. Otherwise I again assert that the challenge in the op has been met without opposition.

 

[Archer]

Well if you did and I missed as you claim then do quote me the post #, or rewrite your defence of the currently debunked christian god. Otherwise I again assert that the challenge in the op has been met without opposition.

I never replied.

 

[Humanistheart]

I never replied.

So, you say I did not suceed in disproving the christian god, yet neither you nor any other poster could offer a counter argument. As I said, the chrisitan god is currently debunked, feel free to try and change that.

 

[Archer]

To respond to the OP, you extend a challenge to prove that 'god' doesn't exist. Along the line you indicate your refering to the abrahamic god, but do not specify which. However since christianity is the most represented of those religions on this forums I'll go with that.

The christian concept of god is as a qualified montheistic version known as the trinity. This trinity is rooted in the NT of the christian bible, founded on the concept that jesus was the messiah/ 'son of god'. So to disprove this particular god one must only show that jesus was not in fact the messiah fortold in the ancient jewish prophicy found in the Tannack or OT.

Jesus did not fulfill one single messianic prophecy, let alone all of them. One cannot be called the messiah without having fulfilled the messiah's purpose, so jesus was not a messiah. The christian god does not exist. So unless you can give some evidence that jesus actually did fulfill all the messianic prophecies (or at least one) or you were not refering to the christian god for this thread, I believe the challenge in your post has been met. there is no god.

Isaiah 49:1-10 (King James Version)

Isaiah 49

1Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
2And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;
3And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
4Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God.
5And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.
6And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
7Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.
8Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;
9That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places.
10They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.


The red has happened


Blue: Our souls are fed.


Refuted=FAIL, need I explain there is more than one prophecy in the OT, The other is the 2nd coming

 

[dogsgod]

I can't prove there is no God. It might be hiding somewhere in the universe and I'm not able to look under every rock on every planet to prove it's not there.

 

[Humanistheart]

Isaiah 49:1-10 (King James Version)

Isaiah 49

1Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
2And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;
3And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
4Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God.
5And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.
6And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
7Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.
8Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;
9That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places.
10They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.


The red has happened


Blue: Our souls are fed.


Refuted=FAIL, need I explain there is more than one prophecy in the OT, The other is the 2nd coming

The passage your quoting is about Isreal. Throughout the book of Isiah Isreal is repeatedly called the servent or suffering servant (which is more of a side note). The point being is that Isreal was to be a light unto all nations. Anyway lets take a look at that passage from another version of the bible.

Bible in Basic English
It is not enough for one who is my servant to put the tribes of Jacob again in their place, and to get back those of Israel who have been sent away: my purpose is to give you as a light to the nations, so that you may be my salvation to the end of the earth.

Also, recall that throughout jesus' ministry depicted in the bible he never went to territories not made up primarily of jews, and the majority of his earlier followers were jews. If this were a prophicy, it doesn't say that the light will come eventually, long after the messiah's death now does it?

Even if you can argue this, I did give a short list of prophicies not fullfilled. One out of several wouldn't cut it.

That may be a good idea.

Isaiah 11:1 Show's us the messiah must be of the bloodline of david. We don't have marry's lineage and Jospeh is not the biological father so that's out.

Ezekiel 37:26-28 - Build the Third Temple; Jesus didn't do this and to my knowledge no one else has yet either.

Isaiah 43:5-6 - The messiah will gather all jewish people back to their promised land of Isreal. The jewish diaspora only worsened after jesus, and the death of his portrayed in the bible has been a nifty excuse through the years to abuse jewish people.

Isaiah 2:4 The messiah is to usher in an age of peace and prosperity for the world. Jesus did not do this. He was in fact viewed as a criminal in his time, and christian followers have braught an immence amount of war and death in their short time on this earth. Quite the opposite of the prophecy.

Zechariah 14:9 The messiah will bring the world to one single true understanding of Yaweigh. Jesus did not accomplish this. In fact christianity has led to numerous offshoot religions, further confusing the concept of the god of abraham.

Deut. 13:1-4, while not a messianic prophecy, says that anyone who commes to change torah, to change the law, is a false prophet. Jesus changed a lot of things now didn't he.

Etc etc. Jesus was not a messiah, he was not a god, so yes, we can conclude the christian god concept has been disproved.

 

[Humanistheart]

I can't prove there is no God. It might be hiding somewhere in the universe and I'm not able to look under every rock on every planet to prove it's not there.

Maybe, but that at least eleminates any, or at least most, of the god's worshiped by humans currently.

 

[Archer]

Actually the LON in the early 1900's started to reestablish Israel/Palestine but it was not until after WWII that it was completed (Without Christian nations would never have happened).

He did build a temple: "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again." (John 2:19) and Mark records His accusers as stating that He'd said: "I will destroy this temple which is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, made without hands." (Mark 14:58). A Temple made WITHOUT man's hands... they were correct, this Temple was raised up and is being built by God alone... His work, His do-ing... certainly that sums up resurrection Life! Anything which is of Him is filled with His Life and death has no power over it! This Temple which Jesus is building is full of His Life and death cannot prevent His building project because He has already conquered death.

I can refute everything you posted so we will be back to the start.

 

[Humanistheart]

Actually the LON in the early 1900's started to reestablish Israel/Palestine but it was not until after WWII that it was completed (Without Christian nations would never have happened)..

What is the LON?

He did build a temple: "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again." (John 2:19) and Mark records His accusers as stating that He'd said: "I will destroy this temple which is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, made without hands." (Mark 14:58). A Temple made WITHOUT man's hands... they were correct, this Temple was raised up and is being built by God alone... His work, His do-ing... certainly that sums up resurrection Life! Anything which is of Him is filled with His Life and death has no power over it! This Temple which Jesus is building is full of His Life and death cannot prevent His building project because He has already conquered death.

I can refute everything you posted so we will be back to the start.

Well if you can, by all means do. There are several more I listed that you haven't touched. Plus you failed to show that jesus built a thirst temple. The prophecy does not, in anyway indicate that the 3rd temple would not be a physical one. In the tannack yaweigh himself give insturctions on how he wanted the temple built, and where. There is no reason to think the 3rd temple was meant to be anything but physical. Jesus built no third temple.

 

[Archer]

What is the LON?



Well if you can, by all means do. There are several more I listed that you haven't touched. Plus you failed to show that jesus built a thirst temple. The prophecy does not, in anyway indicate that the 3rd temple would not be a physical one. In the tannack yaweigh himself give insturctions on how he wanted the temple built, and where. There is no reason to think the 3rd temple was meant to be anything but physical. Jesus built no third temple.

League of Nations.

I will get back to this later, I am tired.

 

[challupa]

Actually the LON in the early 1900's started to reestablish Israel/Palestine but it was not until after WWII that it was completed (Without Christian nations would never have happened).

He did build a temple: "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again." (John 2:19) and Mark records His accusers as stating that He'd said: "I will destroy this temple which is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, made without hands." (Mark 14:58). A Temple made WITHOUT man's hands... they were correct, this Temple was raised up and is being built by God alone... His work, His do-ing... certainly that sums up resurrection Life! Anything which is of Him is filled with His Life and death has no power over it! This Temple which Jesus is building is full of His Life and death cannot prevent His building project because He has already conquered death.

I can refute everything you posted so we will be back to the start.

Are you saying that Hitler (who was a christian RCC) is the catalyst that got the Jews their nation? Trust me, it wasn't just Christians that were disgusted with what Hitler did so don't take all the credit, if that's what it even can be called.

 

[Autodidact]

There again it is about perception!! Fear not as in trembling, fear as in forgetting a loved ones birthday.

So we don't need to fear that God will lift his veil of protection and we'll be smitten with an earthquake?

 

[Autodidact]

I wont as to the repercussions, some things are personal.

As to the blessings, I have never gone hungry. I have received large amounts of money up to 10,000 at a time.

There are explanations for all of this but the when and how are where God comes into play!

Here ya go. I stopped contributing to my 401K to buy a truck! A week later I get a raise (4Kpy).

I sold the truck a few years later, then brother in law died after I sold it and the money helped pay for his funeral.

So I guess then Bill Gates' good fortune (he is an atheist) is evidence that God doesn't exist? Or what?

 

[Autodidact]

Who said I won?

I had an auto accident in 91' 10000+ in hospital bills, I never saw a bill. It was paid, by who? From the same accident I was paralyzed on my right side, I walked out of the hospital! 6 weeks later I was back to work.

Now read your post over carefully for an excellent example of counting the hits and ignoring the misses.

 

[Autodidact]

The God of Abraham, then we can move to the next.

You do realize that it is impossible for Jesus to be the God of Abraham, right?

Anyway, does "the God of Abraham" answer prayer?

 

[Autodidact]

Everyone, including atheists, have to believe in someone or something. The followers of God (specifically Yahweh, God of Abraham, Yitzak, and Yaokob) believe that he was from the beginning; because it is written:

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." ---- First Book of Mashe 1:1

Now since none of us was around when this event took place, we are left with two choices on the above quote: Either God was in the beginning or he wasn't in the beginning. In other words either you believe that God was in the beginning or you believe that there was no God in the beginning. But you cannot scientifically prove that event because (like I said before) none of was there to witness that event.

Now our forefathers (through the Sons of Yishrael) have handed us the accounts (i.e. The Holy Scriptures, Tanakh, Torah) of what took place since creation of mankind. And once, again we are only left with two decisions: Either we believe that the events took place or we don't believe them. But we neither scientifically prove nor disprove that those events occur because we did not witness those events.

From what I have read in the Bible, proving (or disproving) the existence of God cannot be done only scientifically. Eventually, God has set conditions in life to force the Sons of Aedam to exercise their faith. And if every man is honest, he will admit that he had, has, and will continue to use faith with or without scientifically proving people, places, or things.

If you want the definition of who God in question is; I believe that he has these attributes:

1) He has always been; i.e. He wasn't created. :candle:
2) He was in the beginning
3) He created everthing the heavens (universe) and earth and everything in them;
4) He is all powerful.
5) He is all knowing of the past, present, and future
6) He loves his creation.
7) He is perfect.
8) He is righteous in everything that he do.
9) He will restore righteousness and salvation in all the earth.
10) He will restore the Sons of Yishrael to their rightful glory in Yerushalyim. :yes:

There are other attributes and accolades but these are what I remember at the spur of the moment. :angel2:

Shabbath Shaluum,

OThGA

Thank you. That God CAN be disproved.
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil?”

 

[Smoke]

We are to fear his wrath.

AHHHH!! the fear is not of a slave to a master but a child to a parent

Not of being beaten but fear of disappointing.

There again it is about perception!! Fear not as in trembling, fear as in forgetting a loved ones birthday.

It is an internal fear. A fear that one will not feel your expressions of love.

So, then, what is meant by "the wrath of God" is that one may fail to express one's love for God in a way that God will "feel".

That's wrath I can live with.

 

[Archer]

So, then, what is meant by "the wrath of God" is that one may fail to express one's love for God in a way that God will "feel".

That's wrath I can live with.

That is for the guy's who don't believe I ain't worried about it.

 

[challupa]

That is for the guy's who don't believe I ain't worried about it.

Hmmm I think you find that the guys "who don't believe" aren't too worried about it either.