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Shoe is on the other foot: Prove there is not God.

godnotgod

Thou art That
Morality and conscience are learned responses that we are conditioned to as children, not instincts already woven into our genes. If a child were raised without being taught about morality or his/her conscience, they wouldn't have either, and would act just as animals do. People ARE animals. How is human lust any more or less wrong than animal lust? They are one and the same

We are animals, but we are not just animals. We have a greater potential, one that allows transformation into a higher being within this lifetime, whereas animals follow fixed behavior patterns. You say a child raised without morality or conscience would have neither, but they still have human nature, which comes with the potential for the unfolding of the higher self, such as virtue and love. Human carnality, even without such restraints as morality, would eventually be molded by other innate values.
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
Excuse me? Are you saying that it is a delusion that man can become separated from God, or that man is deluded because he is separated from God?

If you mean to say the latter, can you explain how man can become separated from God?
It is a delusion that man can be seperated from God.
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
Carnality is not evil in and of itself. When it becomes hedonistic, however, is when the spirit becomes corrupted, and the mind is ruled by the passions. In other words, mind and body are out of balance with one another.

Carnality is enmity which is deep seated hatred towards God. Now God is love and enmity is hatred. God is good, carnality is evil. This should be clear now. As for hedonistic, thats a stretch because the scriptures say that all have sinned and most of all humanity has a carnal mind, so is most of all humanity hedonistic? I think not. See its a stretch.

What kind of mind do you call it that instructed Judas to allow the woman to wash his feet in precious oils, against his protest that the money so derived could be used to feed the poor?

So where are you getting this to say that Jesus had a carnal mind?

We are all carnal, as human beings.

So you testify yourself that all humans are hedonistic? Do you see where i am going with this.

It cannot be avoided. On the contrary, to be alive in the flesh is one of the gifts of the Incarnation, given apriori to all mankind, and not just to the historic Jesus. Where we have gone wrong is to think that carnality is morally wrong. Being carnal is the whole point of our earthly existence. We became flesh in order to enjoy the gifts of the Incarnation. We enjoy good food, drink, sex, and other pleasures, both by the body and the spirit. We have art, music, and dance to give pleasure to the eye, ear, and body. When kept in the proper perspecive, all is good. Developing the right approach to these gifts is called the art of living, and Jesus, as you may recall, encouraged us to "choose life". In choosing life, we choose the things in life that bring us pleasure, but knowing that such pleasures are only temporal. It is when the mind tries to overly prolong such pleasures that we miss the entire point of their fleeting quality, which is what makes them pleasurable! In other words, if we do not know how to die, we cannot know how to live.

You have some good points here but also remember these things said "Love not the world", "he who tries to find his life will lose it", and the big one "For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face,"

Now all that you put can become idols of the heart, and we are to have no idols before God.


Yes, I am aware of the doctrine, but that goes against the doctrine of the resurrection of the body of all men on Judgment Day. Some will ascend into heaven and some descend into Hell. It appears you do not subscribe to this doctrine, but most Christians do.
There is no scripture that says "resurrection of the body". That is a catholic made up thing in their apostles creed. To the contrary the scriptures only teach "the resurrection of the dead". The catholics and most christians dont believe that dead actually means dead so they have their doctrine of immortal soul and that you can go to heaven or hell or purgatory and therefore you can [after teaching the one lie of immortal soul] bring another lie in by saying "the resurrection of the body" because with a immortal soul you never really died. See they have to use lie upon lie to make a doctrine work

Carnality in humans is complicated by conscience and morality. Animals have no problem with lust as humans do.

When your higher consciousness is in balance with your body there is no problem, no internal warfare. Morality pits the spirit against the flesh in an illusory war of Good against Evil. The problem is that the human mind conceives of flesh and spirit as two distinct irreconcilable entities, but only because the body is allowed to get out of synch with the spirit. Much of this thinking comes from Gnosticism. In reality, there is no difference between the body and the spirit, the body being a temporal form manifested by the spirit.

Not according to God. God made man a body, then He breathed in them the breath of life. Thats it. Two steps. What these two created was "a living soul". Consequently it says the same thing about animals. The very same thing. According to the Word we are animals, beasts. According to science we are animals,beasts too
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
Why so surprised? Did not God become flesh? Did he not target the flesh when he killed tens of thousands in the Deluge? Was it not the flesh that he had in mind when he punished Job with boils and other afflictions? Did he not demand a carnal sacrifice of flesh and blood in order to appease his anger over Original Sin? Was it not carnality that kept the Angel of Death from killing the firstborn of the Jews during Passover, when they smeared lamb's blood over their doorposts? The Apostles at the Last Supper and all Catholics at the Mass symbolically and carnally eat and drink the flesh and blood of Jesus. The carnality of the Christian God permeates Christian history and doctrine.

You paint a pretty gruel picture here. Let me add He also says He is the one who created evil. I could go into lots of detail on this and how He is far from carnality or evil but if you dont realise or see His plan in the scriptures you would understand. To take the simple way out i will sum it up like this, if you have the power to kill/sustain life and to make life/make alive and what you wanted your creatures to learn is "the wages of sin is death" and "righteousness" then what you read in the scriptures is justified and God is just. God knows He is the one who is responsible for His creation and He will fix it according to His plan

No? He did not have a body? He did not eat, drink, and excrete, all according to carnal and natural desires and impulses? I think what you may be trying to say is that he was not ruled by these impulses. In other words, he had them, but his higher self did not allow him to let them lead his behavior.
Think about it, if the body is carnal then youd be correct, but if the mind which controls the body and tells the body what it touches, tastes, feels, hear, smell, how it feels [emotionally and physically] etc etc, in otherwords the brain that tells your body everything you experience and the scriptures teach that we humans need a "renewing of the mind" and that it is the carnal mind that needs renewing then it has nothing to do with the body.

Jesus said all His words and thoughts and actions were from God and that "I can do nothing of Myself" and says "I am the Truth". He was not ruled by these impulses not because "but his higher self did not allow him to let them lead his behavior" but because HIS GOD WOULD LET HIM SIN. You will only understand that if you understand that the teaching of freewill is false and that even Jesus didnt have a freewill
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
All conceptions of "God" I have seen so far are either contradictory, or raise further questions. Therefore, they cannot be correct.
 
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