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Featured Sexual abuse in Mormon church

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by idea, Mar 25, 2018.

  1. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    The Mormon church has another big scandal going on right now - I was surprised not to see a thread on here about it yet- it involves girls at the mission training center who were abused by a mission president - they reported it, and it went ignored for now almost 30 years -
    File:2017-Joseph L Bishop-Audio.mp3 - MormonLeaks™ Wiki

    official church statement -
    Church Statement About Alleged Sexual Assault by Former Mission President
    - we interviewed him, he said he did not do anything wrong, so we ignored it...no disciplinary council or action, this is how things are done in the LDS church. The church does NOT report abuse.

    Here is another example of priesthood molesting chidlren:
    https://www.amazon.com/Sins-Brother-Curtis-Betrayal-Conviction/dp/1416591044

    I am involved in another case right now, involving quite a lot of minors and the 1st councilor in a bishopric - who videotaped what he did. The LDS church did not turn him in (after several reports), his employer did.

    Here is a list of others: Mormon abuse cases - Wikipedia
    • Franklin Curtis: (LDS Church) paid a three million dollar settlement to Jeremiah Scott - this is your tithing money you know...
    • Timothy McCleve: pleaded guilty to sexually molesting children from his ward
    • bishop Lon Kennard, Sr. was charged with 43 felony counts of sex abuse and sexual exploitation of children
    • bishop Todd Michael Edwards was sentenced to three years in prison for molesting two teenage girls...A felony charge of witness intimidation was dismissed as part of a plea bargain with prosecutors after Edwards pleaded guilty ← tithing is used to keep sexual abuse cases "hush hush"
    • LDS Church bishop Michael Wayne Coleman was arrested and charged with luring a minor for sexual exploitation after a forensic examination of his laptop and cellphone revealed sexually graphic conversations and an exchange of nude photographs with a teenaged student in Brazil.
    • Darran Scott - abused boys
    • etc. etc. etc . - if you want to read a 300+ pg book with case after case after case: https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documen...JESUS_CHRIST_OF_LATTER-DAY_SAINTS-2017-06.pdf
    This is not fundamentalist groups - this is the mainstream LDS church.A church founded with polygamy, that apparently still protects abusive men - just pay millions to victims to keep everything hush hush, and keep collecting that tithing money.


    Protect The Children--Stop Sexually Explicit Interviews of Mormon Youth
    ↑ families refusing to participate in "personal priesthood" interviews where children are placed into a room alone, with an older man, and questioned about their sexuality.

    I would like to hear from any LDS members on here - how you can defend - high priests - called of g-d - who use their leadership positions to sexually assault the children they are "called by g-d" to preside over.

    How can anyone claim that
    • the priesthood is real
    • leaders are led by the spirit
    • callings are inspired
    • Women should not work to support themselves, they should remain trapped in abusive relashonships - it is the duty of priesthood to "protect and provide" while women are to stay at home.
    • etc. etc. etc.

    In light of these cases?

    It is different from the cases in other churches where leaders do not claim to hold official authority from g-d, so stating "everyone has these problems" is NOT an excuse.

    Utah has a horrible porn problem
    Members in the church have a horrible porn problem, and untrained volunteer addiction support groups are NOT helping. Members are not encouraged to go to professional help - they are sent to these volunteer groups, and situations become worse...

    I have left the church - not over spilled milk - but because of the sexual abuse within the LDS church.
     
    #1 idea, Mar 25, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
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  2. WalterTrull

    WalterTrull Godfella

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    I am reminded of Bill Clinton's answer to "Why did you do it"? after the Lewinsky scandal. The answer: "Because I could".
     
  3. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    (Bold mine).
    In what capacity are you involved?
     
  4. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    I know 11 of the children.
     
  5. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Then please be careful with how you manage information regarding their case until it is legally resolved.

    That said, I am glad they have contact with someone like you. They will likely need a lot of help from people like you. It is unfortunate that other's couldn't have helped sooner.
     
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  6. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is often one of the most troubling things about these cases, they seldom go public out of respect for the young victims involved. It is not until years later, after the victims have lived with anger and unresolved / unacknowledged pain - as in this new case - and are finally old enough to tell their story on their own, that many situations come out... of course by then, no one believes anything "why did they wait 30 years to say something, they must not be telling the truth.." etc., then other victims see previous victims laughed at / dis-fellow-shipped / ridiculed for sharing their pain, and new victims refuse to come forward. So how does anyone talk about this stuff?

    I yelled at our detective - they were relying on the church to provide emotional support and counseling services - this is wrong wrong wrong, that is NOT professional, the church's #1 goal is to hide and belittle, they are NOT helping these kids. I am so angry right now - I hate being angry. Anger can be good though, this is how things are stopped right?
     
  7. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    I do not know the particulars of this case. I do not know the families involved. I do not know the extent and state of the police investigation, criminal trial, or civil trial. I do know that when people are close to a situation as devastating as this, they are understandably heavily, emotionally invested. When people are emotionally invested they can let slip private information or act in a way that is damaging to the case at hand. While the court of public opinion is an important trial, it is secondary to the police investigation, criminal and civil trials. Those are most immediately important for the victims.

    I am not suggesting not to discuss this, I am saying that you are in a very tough position where you must remain guarded and rational. Trust me, I am very sympathetic to your purpose and position. It was the mention of your involvement that threw the red flag. Just a friendly reminder, nothing more. I apologize if you took offense.
     
  8. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you have been through a case or two as well. No offense taken. It is the worst thing in the world isn't it? Worse than someone getting killed. A combination of losing faith, losing family, coming to hate g-d, a complete 180° twist... to go from respecting and being impressed by someone, to finding the people you most admired are the worst people on the face of the earth - it messes with your mind a bit.
     
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  9. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    ==============================
    Note: This is in <same faith debates>
    ==============================
     
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  10. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Oops. Well I wasn't debating if that counts for anything. Though, I will gladly accept the consequences for what I wrote. That said, I agree it should have been in PM. Ty.
     
  11. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Yeah, I saw it was in Same Faith Debates, but I'm not sure what it is we're debating. I also saw that the OP started out with an "invitation" to Mormons to "defend yourself." I don't know what to do with that either, so until I figure it out, I guess I'll just remain silent.
     
  12. The Emperor of Mankind

    The Emperor of Mankind Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic

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    And here it is. It was only a matter of time before the LDS Church was embroiled in its own sexual abuse scandal like the Catholic Church and the Jehovah's Witnesses.
     
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  13. Jane.Doe

    Jane.Doe Active Member

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    Defend what?

    I'm a Mormon and I find what happened to be tragic. I'm also a survivor of sexual abuse myself (a horror story there). The pain caused by abuse is extremely real and devastating. My first and foremost concern when working with an abused person is getting that person the help/healing they need. A person bleeding is not a weapon to be used to wage war or push agendas.

    As to preventing bad stuff happening in the future (I'm going to be really blunt here): if you expect an institution (religious secular, educational, sports, doctors, playgroups, etc) to protect your children 100%, you are naive. Predators exist. If you have two women in a room, chances are one of them was abused before the age of 18 (let alone after). For men, it's the same stat if you have 3 men in a room. Predators can be your spouse, your other children, your parents, your children's friends, your children's teachers, the neighbor, etc. The smart predators are seldom caught and masters of encouraging silence. The best defense you can get your children is to teach them what's appropriate, how to say no, and daily maintain safe and loving communications. That way WHEN someone rotten in their life happens, they know better what to do and feel much safer reaching out to you.
     
  14. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    I saw the same, but also noted that idea said "For - non-LDS members, how should the public react? how to stop religious abuse?"

    What's an outsider to do? Mods?

    .
     
  15. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    @idea, do you want this thread moved out of same faith debates so that non-Mormons can participate in it?
     
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  16. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    If we can wait a few days, and then move it? I do actually want to hear from those who are LDS before further complicating it. Thanks!
     
  17. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    How can anyone claim that
    • the priesthood is real
    • leaders are led by the spirit
    • callings are inspired
    • Women should not work to support themselves, they should remain trapped in abusive relashonships - it is the duty of priesthood to "protect and provide" while women are to stay at home.
    • etc. etc. etc.
    In light of these cases?

    Does g-d call pedophiles into leadership positions? then allow them to stay in those positions for years and years? Or is the church not led by g-d?
     
  18. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    I agree - it is important to get people the help that they need - the LDS church has not gotten ____ the help they need. The LDS church put _ in harm's way. _ names removed.

    What I expect -
    NO PPI's, two-deep youth protection policies
    Background checks before callings are issued - as any organization that works with children does
    Change policies on how the church reacts and deals with abuse charges - ie - not hide/protect abusers.
    etc. etc.
     
  19. Jane.Doe

    Jane.Doe Active Member

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    As a sexual abuse victim myself, I find it horribly offensive when people use the pain of victims as a platform for pushing their agendas. That is taking the focus away from the bleeding person in favor of a political pig pen.
    I was abused in a situation where there WERE two-deep policies, background checks, zero tolerance, etc. The man that abused me was serial abuser there going after kid after kid. He was well loved by all the adults (such a lying mask).

    As I said, it is naive to except a policy or institution to 100% protect anyone. Predators exist, and they are smart & practiced at what they do.
     
    #19 Jane.Doe, Mar 25, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
  20. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    I am sorry to hear of your experience - I had experiences outside the church, before joining, and now I have had experiences inside the church - a place I thought was safe - I thought the Spirit guided callings etc. and I was wrong. My patriarchal blessing says I "was tested at a young age" and that I will be tested my entire life... was that blessing from g-d? is this how g-d "tests" people? because that is what my blessing states.

    This thing has me so messed up - I hate g-d, I hate people I used to look up to, nothing beyond the veil to look forward to, and nothing but pain and misery here too. I want to go back to the naive/happy/security/faith I had before this, where I had faith in g-d, believed g-d was loving etc. and I cannot go back.

    Honesty. I have delt with a lot of lies as well. Honesty is very important to me, and if I am honest - I honestly do not believe g-d is loving anymore.
     
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