BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Because people are notoriously stubborn and willful. Jesus can heal the stubborn and make them fit for love and the Kingdom of God.
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religions and hate?
- Thread starter islam abduallah
- Start date
Because people are notoriously stubborn and willful. Jesus can heal the stubborn and make them fit for love and the Kingdom of God.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
That's rather ironic considering that Abraham himself was a humble man and not hateful at all.
Sam Harris is just one very outspoken youtube personality. Prof. Dawkins says similar things, because he gets demonized by many religionists for doing his job. He teaches evolutionary theory, so he catches a lot of flak from people who do not like that. I would not call either of them experts on religions. They are experts in other fields though.
For three thousand years Egyptians pillaged and believed the gods wanted them to do it. It doesn't surprise me when people who say that they are religious become violent about it.
Some of us can do this without the assistance of Jesus. :0)
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Of course believers in Jesus think you only delude yourself.
And, of course, that's their prerogative.
Lester Tryon
Member
I tend to agree, at least with the "most people" part, but to be able to have any truly meaningful discourse with others of opposing (or even differing) views from one's own, requires a willingness to step outside of our comfort zone and objectively try to understand those views. This is true in every aspect of human interactions, as well as in our own individual growth.
Lester Tryon
Member
While I do agree with the underlying sentiment of interacting with our world based on tangible evidence, I would not go so far as to state unequivocally that there is no God (or higher power, etc.) Since with no actual proof either way, it's not a defensible stance. I don't accept that any religion is the one "true" faith, as if this were the case, then all others would be wrong.
If there is an all powerful being who "created" everything including humans, what sense would it make for that being to play favorites? Also, just how arrogant does someone have to be to think they can speak for this being?
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Like others, I do not accept the premise that religions (or any ideologies for that matter) are the root source of human hatred. It seems to me the root source of human hatred is a fundamental property of the universe: diversity. By "diversity" I mean that the universe is composed of individual things that are different from one another in time, space, and nature. These individual things then have different interactions and relationships with each other. Those interactions take many forms and have many outcomes. Inevitably, some of those interactions will be adversarial. Conflict is an inherent consequence of the universe being diverse and full of individual things that can have relationships. In humans, hatred is a specific type of response resulting from diversity - an emotional one brewed from adversarial relationships.
There's another ingredient that seems key to producing hatred in humans, though. That ingredient is intolerance. In order to hate, one has to have drawn a line and settled upon some particular way of being, thinking, or doing. When one is set in one's ways, if some diverse element of the universe comes along and upsets those ways, that adversity then upsets us. We can tolerate a certain amount of friction and upset, but beyond that line, the tolerance becomes intolerance. The "I can manage this" becomes "I can't deal with this" and the human animal goes on fight or flight mode. Hatred and fear, consequential cousins, both emerge when our backs are against the wall.
Religion encompasses so much of a person's identity that it's a particularly ripe source of conflicts between diverse groups. Doubly so as religions are a tremendous source of diversity in human culture. As such, it's difficult to fault some atheists for pointing a finger at religions as a source of hatred. Still, I don't think that finger pointing is useful. It misses the underlying cause - diversity itself - to fault a particular type of diversity. Personally, I can't finger religions while ignoring how differences in skin color, sex and gender, romantic orientation, socioeconomic status, political allegiances, and so forth also spawn hatred.
There's another ingredient that seems key to producing hatred in humans, though. That ingredient is intolerance. In order to hate, one has to have drawn a line and settled upon some particular way of being, thinking, or doing. When one is set in one's ways, if some diverse element of the universe comes along and upsets those ways, that adversity then upsets us. We can tolerate a certain amount of friction and upset, but beyond that line, the tolerance becomes intolerance. The "I can manage this" becomes "I can't deal with this" and the human animal goes on fight or flight mode. Hatred and fear, consequential cousins, both emerge when our backs are against the wall.
Religion encompasses so much of a person's identity that it's a particularly ripe source of conflicts between diverse groups. Doubly so as religions are a tremendous source of diversity in human culture. As such, it's difficult to fault some atheists for pointing a finger at religions as a source of hatred. Still, I don't think that finger pointing is useful. It misses the underlying cause - diversity itself - to fault a particular type of diversity. Personally, I can't finger religions while ignoring how differences in skin color, sex and gender, romantic orientation, socioeconomic status, political allegiances, and so forth also spawn hatred.
Lester Tryon
Member
Most religions teach love for one another. Contrary to popular belief, hate is not the opposite of love, it is actually the most negative aspect/expression of it. For in order to "hate", a person needs to allow the object of that hatred into their heart. That being said, I think, in all honesty, that the single biggest contributor of hate, is ignorance.
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If true it begs the question why are the abrahmic religions hateful?.
Tribalism causes most of the world's hate. Add it to anything and you get problems.
Take the concept of race and add Tribalism, you get racism.
Take the concept of materialism and add Tribalism, you get class warfare.
Take the concept of a nation and add Tribalism, you get xenophobia.
Take the concept of political ideologies and add Tribalism and you get the modern divisive political climate of oh so many countries these days.
Take a profession and add Tribalism and you get castes.
Take the concept of religion and add Tribalism and you get religious intolerance in its many forms.
The us-versus-them mentality sours and corrupts everything it enters.
Take the concept of race and add Tribalism, you get racism.
Take the concept of materialism and add Tribalism, you get class warfare.
Take the concept of a nation and add Tribalism, you get xenophobia.
Take the concept of political ideologies and add Tribalism and you get the modern divisive political climate of oh so many countries these days.
Take a profession and add Tribalism and you get castes.
Take the concept of religion and add Tribalism and you get religious intolerance in its many forms.
The us-versus-them mentality sours and corrupts everything it enters.
As an atheist I don't believe religions are this thing apart from humans, but something humans created. So problems within religion stem from problems with human behavior. Religions don't cause either good or bad things to happen, people do.
I think traditionalist mindsets are dangerous, and I think religions (particularly Abrahamic) have been used as an excuse to oppress outside views and their viewers, gays and lesbians, women even racial minorities. But I don't think the thought process or behaviors which cause those problems originate with religion.
I think traditionalist mindsets are dangerous, and I think religions (particularly Abrahamic) have been used as an excuse to oppress outside views and their viewers, gays and lesbians, women even racial minorities. But I don't think the thought process or behaviors which cause those problems originate with religion.
The world moves at a fast pace. Religions *tend* to be sluggish, lagging far behind new discoveries and new, healthier perspectives. Modernity is not perfect - by no means. But modern life is FAR, FAR better than life was 100 years ago, 200 years ago, let alone 1400 or 2000 years ago. The best ideas about how to live well 1400 years ago are now - typically - really bad ideas.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
People are hateful. All people are, doesn't matter about religion.
Statements that are qualified with words such as all, always, every, none, and never, are rarely true.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Its a shame it does,I agree that people can be good or bad regardless of religion but look at the middle east for example and how it was in Europe,look at Ireland today,religious hatred and intollerance .
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
All of that proves my point. Look at the Ukraine and North Korea. People are hateful, no matter about religion.