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President Chickenhawk's Viet Nam Draft Deferments.

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I don't think Cadet Bone Spurs was opposed to the Viet Nam War on moral grounds so much as he was merely opposed to he himself risking his life to participate in it.

Back in the day, he didn't protest the war or anything so noble as that. There's no record at all of him doing that, and so far as I've heard, not even he claims to have so much as written even one letter-to-the-editor in protest.

Although he “hated the concept of the war,” he said, he did not speak out against it.

“I was never a fan of the Vietnam War,” he said. “But I was never at the protest level, either, because I had other things to do.”
[Source]

What a wus.

He probably didn't mind at all that other people were getting shot up, though. Nowadays, he's basically a chickenhawk, what with his posturing against North Korea and Iran. That most likely isn't much changed from his Viet Nam days.

Comments?
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Must be part of the initiation for high office. We find that Bill Clinton and Joe Biden also avoided the draft.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Must be part of the initiation for high office. We find that Bill Clinton and Joe Biden also avoided the draft.
That's different.
(Btw, so did Hillary by invoking female privilege.)

Anyway, just so you're clear on what a chicken hawk is....
Chickenhawk (politics) - Wikipedia
Chickenhawk (chicken hawk or chicken-hawk) is a political term used in the United States to describe a person who strongly supports war or other military action (i.e., a war hawk), yet who actively avoids or avoided military service when of age.
The term indicates that the person in question is hypocritical for personally dodging a draft or otherwise shirking their duty to their country during a time of armed conflict while advocating that others do so. Generally, the implication is that chickenhawks lack the moral character to participate in war themselves, preferring to ask others to support, fight and perhaps die in an armed conflict.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
Do you believe that Trump didn't have a legitimate medical condition? Do you believe that it should not have been the policy of the draft to defer for heel spurs? Do you feel that Trump should not have asked for deferral based on heel spurs?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
You sure about that?
He is.
Do you disagree?
Ref....
Joe Biden - Wikipedia
Biden received student draft deferments during this period, at the peak of the Vietnam War,[32] and in 1968, he was reclassified by the Selective Service System as not available for service due to having had asthma as a teenager.[32][33] He never took part in anti-war demonstrations.....
Bill Clinton - Wikipedia
During the Vietnam War, Clinton received educational draft deferments while he was in England in 1968 and 1969.[21] He was planning to attend law school in the U.S. and was aware that he might lose his draft deferment. Clinton tried unsuccessfully to obtain positions in the National Guard or Air Force, and he then made arrangements to join the Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) program at the University of Arkansas.[22]

He subsequently decided not to join the ROTC, saying in a letter to the officer in charge of the program that he opposed the war, but did not think it was honorable to use ROTC, National Guard, or Reserve service to avoid serving in Vietnam. He further stated that because he opposed the war, he would not volunteer to serve in uniform, but would subject himself to the draft, and would serve if selected only as a way "to maintain my political viability within the system".[23] Clinton registered for the draft and received a high number (311), meaning that those whose birthdays had been drawn as numbers 1 to 310 would have to be drafted before him, making it unlikely that he would be drafted. (In fact, the highest number drafted was 195.)[24]

Colonel Eugene Holmes, the Army officer who had been involved with Clinton's ROTC application, suspected that Clinton attempted to manipulate the situation to avoid the draft and avoid serving in uniform. He issued a notarized statement during the 1992 presidential campaign:

I was informed by the draft board that it was of interest to Senator Fulbright's office that Bill Clinton, a Rhodes Scholar, should be admitted to the ROTC program ... I believe that he purposely deceived me, using the possibility of joining the ROTC as a ploy to work with the draft board to delay his induction and get a new draft classification.[25]
During the 1992 campaign, it was revealed that Clinton's uncle had attempted to secure him a position in the Navy Reserve, which would have prevented him from being deployed to Vietnam. This effort was unsuccessful and Clinton said in 1992 that he had been unaware of it until then.[26] Although legal, Clinton's actions with respect to the draft and deciding whether to serve in the military were criticized during his first presidential campaign by conservatives and some Vietnam veterans, some of whom charged that he had used Fulbright's influence to avoid military service.[27][28] Clinton's 1992 campaign manager, James Carville, successfully argued that Clinton's letter in which he declined to join the ROTC should be made public, insisting that voters, many of whom had also opposed the Vietnam War, would understand and appreciate his position.[29]
 

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
Must be part of the initiation for high office. We find that Bill Clinton and Joe Biden also avoided the draft.
We, as a people, seem to have stopped caring about that kind of stuff a long time ago...

I have a bigger problem with fake tough-guys than I do with draft dodging, in general.
(And that applies to Clinton and Trump equally, for example.)

Having a willingness to send men and women to war when you can't even be bothered to workout is a bit disgusting. Pretending that you'd be an action-movie hero during a school shooting press conference is a bit disgusting. Attempting to make every conversation in public discourse about yourself is a bit disgusting.

I don't care who you are or what party you represent, those are terrible human qualities.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Way to attempt to distract, man.
At first, I thought his post was whataboutism.
But then I considered the OP naming Trump, "President Chickenhawk".
This introduces the idea that Trump is unique in being a President who
bangs the war drums without having served in an actual war.
A large percentage of our presidents & aspirants would be thusly described.
People only seem to have a problem when the chickennawk is on the other side.
So @BSM1's post was more thoughtful than this slow learner initially understood.

The real problem (IMO) is too many hawks, chicken or otherwise.
(It's why Obama was better than McCain.) I could do with less war.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I don't think Cadet Bone Spurs was opposed to the Viet Nam War on moral grounds so much as he was merely opposed to he himself risking his life to participate in it.

Back in the day, he didn't protest the war or anything so noble as that. There's no record at all of him doing that, and so far as I've heard, not even he claims to have so much as written even one letter-to-the-editor in protest.

[Source]

What a wus.

He probably didn't mind at all that other people were getting shot up, though. Nowadays, he's basically a chickenhawk, what with his posturing against North Korea and Iran. That most likely isn't much changed from his Viet Nam days.

Comments?
Conscription is evil enough that I can't fault anyone for avoiding it however they can.

Yeah, it would have been better if he had worked to stop other people from being drafted too.

Edit: I don't think that his refusal to fight in a conscript army disqualifies him from commanding an armed forces today. The thing that disqualifies him is his incompetence and lack of ethics.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
At first, I thought his post was whataboutism.
But then I considered the OP naming Trump, "President Chickenhawk".
This introduces the idea that Trump is unique in being a President who
bangs the war drums without having served in an actual war.
A large percentage of our presidents & aspirants would be thusly described.
People only seem to have a problem when the chickennawk is on the other side.
So @BSM1's post was more thoughtful than this slow learner initially understood.

The real problem (IMO) is too many hawks, chicken or otherwise.
(It's why Obama was better than McCain.) I could do with less war.
Personally, the problem I see is when politicians like Trump who are deciding where and when the soldiers will fight don't have empathy with the troops whose lives are in their hands. Military service is one way to build that empathy, but it's not the only way (and service doesn't always build that empathy).

While there have been other Presidents who aren't veterans, Trump is somewhat unique in his demonstrated disregard for other people, which is a dangerous trait for a commander-in-chief.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
You sure about that?

Yep. BTW, I was there during this time period, so please don't try to re-write history for me. A lot of us opposed the war for various reasons, and many of us did what ever we could to get out of the draft. However, the vast majority of us did not protest overtly, again, for our own reasons. You have to remember we were 18-19 year old boys/men and being politically savvy wasn't the style back then, The world was turning upside down with the war, rock music, and the whole drop out turn on scene; many of the guys in the war protests were there just to get high and laid.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Personally, the problem I see is when politicians like Trump who are deciding where and when the soldiers will fight don't have empathy with the troops whose lives are in their hands. Military service is one way to build that empathy, but it's not the only way (and service doesn't always build that empathy).

While there have been other Presidents who aren't veterans, Trump is somewhat unique in his demonstrated disregard for other people, which is a dangerous trait for a commander-in-chief.


Couldn't this be said about our previous administration and have more validity?
 

esmith

Veteran Member
Well obviously there are those that think that bone spurs are nothing. Well, I hope you develop them along with the condition that usually causes them...plantar fasciitis. Then let's see what you think
I have both conditions and it is almost totally debilitating when it comes to being on your feet.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Personally, the problem I see is when politicians like Trump who are deciding where and when the soldiers will fight don't have empathy with the troops whose lives are in their hands. Military service is one way to build that empathy, but it's not the only way (and service doesn't always build that empathy).

While there have been other Presidents who aren't veterans, Trump is somewhat unique in his demonstrated disregard for other people, which is a dangerous trait for a commander-in-chief.
Empathy for troops is wonderful, but veteran status is no guarantee.
I saw McCain as a great danger to getting us into more wars.
For him, it seemed to be a noble thing to suffer & die in war.
**** that!
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Except at the time that he got the deferment for bone spurs he had been playing in various sports activities. I've had a bone spur before, they can be painful but they can also be dealt with as I did.
 
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