Paycheck to Paycheck

[suncowiam]

The statement was overly broad but there are people freezing to death - two in the county where I live a couple of years ago.

I'm going to make a hunch and suggest that if these people froze to death, it's probably not having to do with a paycheck. Most likely, they were homeless and statistically speaking, homeless people are more prone to mental disorders.

Again, it's just a hunch until more details come about.

Now, if you or others had actual data to suggest people with an income are actually freezing to death then I would acknowledge it more as a possible pandemic.

 

[siti]

How can only 40% of high school graduates and 20% of college graduates combine to form 80% of Americans?

I dunno but I suspect there might be a deeper connection between the math and the level of debt! But I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing to live paycheck to paycheck anyway - as long as you have paychecks. Short-term emergencies can be dealt with - and longer term issues are not about funds you can just dip into when the car breaks down or whatever anyway. If I keep $1000 in a current account or even an accessible savings account for a year it'll almost certainly be worth less when I spend it than it was when I earned it. As long as you cover yourself for health care and pension and plan your debt to be cleared well in advance of retirement, I reckon it makes more sense to invest your resources in bricks and mortar (which for most means a fairly hefty home loan) and use the rest to help others - especially but not exclusively your own kith and kin - as much as possible. It pisses me off that the bank takes its share for handling my money even when I neither want or need their help to spend it. I have no choice - you can't have a 'paycheck' at all without a bank account to put it in these days - but I still remember the days of the little brown envelope - if the bank wanted to get its greasy paws on my money then they had to offer a decent interest rate on savings, now they just take it anyway. I'm rambling aren't I...what was the question again?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Vast number of Americans live paycheck to paycheck

According to a survey by Career Builder, almost 80% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck (PtP), meaning they have no savings. Included in this figure are 10% of people that earn more than $100K per year.

The links claims that wage stagnation and inflation are the predominant causes of people's lack of economic stability. But I think personal choices play the biggest roles. There is the choice of getting training (40% of people with only high school degrees are PtP vs. 20% of people with college degrees), the choice of following a budget, and the choice of living below your means.

According to Dave Ramsey, anyone can get out of debt. It just takes willpower, planning, and sacrifice.
Do This First If You Want to Get Out of Debt
He has frequent callers of people from all walks of life that started out poor, but are now millionaires through these methods.

What do you think?

People just realized this now?

Gawd is the media ever slow.

 

[socharlie]

Vast number of Americans live paycheck to paycheck

According to a survey by Career Builder, almost 80% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck (PtP), meaning they have no savings. Included in this figure are 10% of people that earn more than $100K per year.

The links claims that wage stagnation and inflation are the predominant causes of people's lack of economic stability. But I think personal choices play the biggest roles. There is the choice of getting training (40% of people with only high school degrees are PtP vs. 20% of people with college degrees), the choice of following a budget, and the choice of living below your means.

According to Dave Ramsey, anyone can get out of debt. It just takes willpower, planning, and sacrifice.
Do This First If You Want to Get Out of Debt
He has frequent callers of people from all walks of life that started out poor, but are now millionaires through these methods.

What do you think?

this is one of the reasons that the nation is so stressed, I've seen this before in the USSR back it 60-70's.

 

[pearl]

It pisses me off that the bank takes its share for handling my money

Use a credit union instead of a bank.

 

[Revoltingest]

Vast number of Americans live paycheck to paycheck

According to a survey by Career Builder, almost 80% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck (PtP), meaning they have no savings. Included in this figure are 10% of people that earn more than $100K per year.

The links claims that wage stagnation and inflation are the predominant causes of people's lack of economic stability. But I think personal choices play the biggest roles. There is the choice of getting training (40% of people with only high school degrees are PtP vs. 20% of people with college degrees), the choice of following a budget, and the choice of living below your means.

According to Dave Ramsey, anyone can get out of debt. It just takes willpower, planning, and sacrifice.
Do This First If You Want to Get Out of Debt
He has frequent callers of people from all walks of life that started out poor, but are now millionaires through these methods.

What do you think?

Those I know who live paycheck to paycheck could benefit from making
better decisions....buy less dope, buy less fast food, don't buy tattoos,
shop at thrift stores, stop getting arrested for this or that, etc.

 

[siti]

Use a credit union instead of a bank.

...buy less dope, buy less fast food, don't buy tattoos, shop at thrift stores, stop getting arrested for this or that, etc.

Wow, guys - thanks for the advice - I can see myself becoming a millionaire by a month next Tuesday with these brilliant strategies!

But I think the real root of the problem here is not the fact that people don't have money, but the fact that having money (or not) is how we measure success (or failure). People who live paycheck to paycheck are unhappy not because they don't have money, but because not having money is seen as a failure. But even if you have it, its like the ourouboros consuming its own tail. (I was thinking of having one tattooed on my arm to celebrate my pecuniary profligacy but the Revolting one just banned tattoos - along with decent clothes - actually I buy almost all my clothes from thrift stores - , weed and KFC - what else is there to live for?). Anyway, my point is - stuff that idea - if you are earning money spend the bloody thing before someone else (like the bank for example) relieves you of it in payment for rendering the service of miscounting it on your behalf. Get a loan for a decent house at a level you can afford to repay, buy a second hand car (or better still a bicycle), get a decent pension and healthcare plan and spend the rest. And don't let them fool you into believing that having no money in your account at the end of the month is a failure. Make those around you happy with what you can afford to do for them - you'll never go hungry or lack a roof over your head if you do that throughout your life.

 

[sun rise]

I'm going to make a hunch and suggest that if these people froze to death, it's probably not having to do with a paycheck. Most likely, they were homeless and statistically speaking, homeless people are more prone to mental disorders.

Again, it's just a hunch until more details come about.

Now, if you or others had actual data to suggest people with an income are actually freezing to death then I would acknowledge it more as a possible pandemic.

I don't know for sure but there are people around here who work and are homeless. 'We still need to eat': Tech boom creates working homeless

 

[suncowiam]

I don't know for sure but there are people around here who work and are homeless. 'We still need to eat': Tech boom creates working homeless

I work in the tech industry as a SW engineer. I live in Silicon Valley. I'm doing very well, actually. I don't choose to live in the best area. My commute is about an hour. I don't choose to live with many luxuries like a fancy Tesla, BMW or Mercedes. I can state definitely that many of my peers are also doing very well.

I know this story very well, but many involved negatively still do not understand basic economics. If their wages do not cover their cost of living, then is that to blame of the "tech boom?"

Well, my wages cover my cost of living and then some. I'm not complaining at all.

 

[Revoltingest]

Wow, guys - thanks for the advice - I can see myself becoming a millionaire by a month next Tuesday with these brilliant strategies!

It's not the path to millionaire status....but it does help live better.
And such advice is only intended for those already making the
relevant bad choices.

 

[siti]

It's not the path to millionaire status....but it does help live better.
And such advice is only intended for those already making the relevant bad choices.

I know - my response was a bit overstated (ok a lot overstated) and tongue in cheek, but the key point I wanted to make is that not having any money for a few days each pay cycle should not be stigmatized or cause for serious concern. I absolutely agree we should use our financial resources wisely, but if a wage-earner is actually managing to get from paycheck to paycheck without sinking deeper and deeper into unsustainable debt, that's not a bad thing necessarily is it? The vast majority of our ancestors would have taken that situation as a resounding success, but somehow we have become so paranoid about being 'skint' now and again these days, that we hit the panic button as soon our bank balance sinks lower than the lowest denomination in the ATM and run around like headless chickens worrying about where our next TV dinner is going to come from. If it is really true that 80% of Americans live from paycheck to paycheck, I'll hazard a guess that most of those rarely have negative balances in their accounts for more than a few days each month and generally manage to sustain their mortgage and car loan repayments, feed their families with food from the fridge, or the fast food outlet down the road, wash, dry and iron their clothes with domestic appliances they have paid for already, get the kids off to school with everything they need and entertain themselves with movies, internet and mobile phones now and again. Who needs money in the bank when you've got all that already?

 

[Enoch07]

But I think personal choices play the biggest roles.

I agree with you. I don't live paycheck to paycheck. I always try to keep a minimum of about 3 months worth of money needed to sustain myself should I lose my job. I do this by putting back money evey chance i get, literally. Even if I only have $20 to add to it, I do it. It adds up!

Meanwhile, I have 2 friends that make more money per year than I do, but have roughly the same amount of bills per month. 1 lives paycheck to paycheck sometimes with only $1 or $2 in his account by the time his next paycheck arrives.

The other and his wife, live in massive debt. Multiple credit cards maxed out, had to consolidate their debt with a home refinance, just to turn around and max back out their credit cards again, all the while living paycheck to paycheck earning 3x more than what I do, so wasteful.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

it is the purpose of a society's economic system to SERVE THE PEOPLE within that society, and it is NOT the purpose of the people in a society to serve an economic system

That's a philosophical position, and one I agree with, as does the preamble of the US Constitution. And it is reflected in a vision of government existing in part to keep the business world serving the general public with fair banking regulations, environmental protections, equitable taxing, and the like.

But it's a liberal position, and not one held by überwealthy, who have been systematically retooling Congress for decades now to serve the billionaire class with the help of voters who keep voting Republican. Their vision of the proper function of government is to serve them - to help them concentrate wealth. power, and privilege at the expense of the middle class. Citizens are viewed as capital, like machines, farm animals, or slaves., each thought to deserve nothing, and to receive just enough shelter, fuel, and maintenance to keep them working.

To better accomplish this - to keep the working force willing to work for little and under undesirable conditions - it's helpful that they be living paycheck to paycheck without reserves and relatively little social safety net. It keeps employees dependent on their current income stream.

One doesn't have to allow this to happen to himself, but to prevent it, one needs to make arrangements to have a healthy and relatively stable income stream, and that probably has to begin early in life when one is making education and future employment decisions.

And as others have noted, one must save for the future and avoid the lure of excessive consumerism. Borrowing should probably be limited to mortgages, car loans, tuition loans, and small business star-up loans, live humbly, and don't accrue credit card debt.

But this all becomes harder to do each year as wages continue to stagnate, bank interest is very low, college tuitions are going through the roof, and assorted jobs are disappearing from the country (outsourcing) or the world (automation).

if a wage-earner is actually managing to get from paycheck to paycheck without sinking deeper and deeper into unsustainable debt, that's not a bad thing necessarily is it?

It's better than living paycheck to paycheck and having growing debt, but it's not as good as having savings or equity in real estate or a business.

 

[pearl]

but if a wage-earner is actually managing to get from paycheck to paycheck without sinking deeper and deeper into unsustainable debt, that's not a bad thing necessarily is it?

Its ok until the paychecks stop and there is no safety cushion. And if one is facing retirement, and it comes quicker than you think, then what?

 

[metis]

I think it is very important that we not stereotype the poor, as some may be poor because of an unsustainable lifestyle they have while others may be poor because of no fault of their own.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's a philosophical position, and one I agree with, as does the preamble of the US Constitution. And it is reflected in a vision of government existing in part to keep the business world serving the general public with fair banking regulations, environmental protections, equitable taxing, and the like.

But it's a liberal position, and not one held by überwealthy, who have been systematically retooling Congress for decades now to serve the billionaire class with the help of voters who keep voting Republican. Their vision of the proper function of government is to serve them - to help them concentrate wealth. power, and privilege at the expense of the middle class. Citizens are viewed as capital, like machines, farm animals, or slaves., each thought to deserve nothing, and to receive just enough shelter, fuel, and maintenance to keep them working.

To better accomplish this - to keep the working force willing to work for little and under undesirable conditions - it's helpful that they be living paycheck to paycheck without reserves and relatively little social safety net. It keeps employees dependent on their current income stream.

One doesn't have to allow this to happen to himself, but to prevent it, one needs to make arrangements to have a healthy and relatively stable income stream, and that probably has to begin early in life when one is making education and future employment decisions.

And as others have noted, one must save for the future and avoid the lure of excessive consumerism. Borrowing should probably be limited to mortgages, car loans, tuition loans, and small business star-up loans, live humbly, and don't accrue credit card debt.

But this all becomes harder to do each year as wages continue to stagnate, bank interest is very low, college tuitions are going through the roof, and assorted jobs are disappearing from the country (outsourcing) or the world (automation).



It's better than living paycheck to paycheck and having growing debt, but it's not as good as having savings or equity in real estate or a business.

Minor point....
Low bank interest rates on deposits isn't a problem at all....it's good.
Consider.....
Interest rates are always adjusted for inflation, because banks need to earn enuf to cover
profit plus currency devaluation (due to inflation). Bank competition means that higher
rates only exist with higher inflation. (Btw, the economic payout [interest rate minus inflation
rate] is typically negative.) But we pay income tax on interest earned, so when interest
rates are higher, the net-after-tax economic payout is even lower.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

What no one teaches us is how to make money.
Sometimes it is the luck of having a great idea and making the most of it.
Sometimes it is taking someone else's great idea and exploiting it.
In almost every case, accumulating money, involves persuading other people to earn it for you.
there are not the hours in the day to do it for your self.
Capitalism is based on the idea of moving money into large enough heaps to be self sustaining.
This can only happen when there are few people owning such heaps,
and large numbers of people contributing to them.
In capitalism Equality is the antithesis of "Money Heaps"
Capitalists rely on a ready supply of wage "slaves"

 

[PureX]

What? People are now starving and freezing to death while living under bridges and alleys with dead bodies laying around in the streets?

Well, I guess I can't really argue against such a profound argument.

There are more people dying in the streets of this country than we realize. And if the republicans continue to gut and eliminate social services, as they certainly intend to, it will get a lot worse. All you have to do is look at how people live and die in countries where there are no effective social services. And you will see our own future, if we continue to allow greed, political corruption, and this "every-man-for-himself" economic philosophy to control our collective well-being.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Minor point....
Low bank interest rates on deposits isn't a problem at all....it's good.
Consider.....
Interest rates are always adjusted for inflation, because banks need to earn enuf to cover
profit plus currency devaluation (due to inflation). Bank competition means that higher
rates only exist with higher inflation. (Btw, the economic payout [interest rate minus inflation
rate] is typically negative.) But we pay income tax on interest earned, so when interest
rates are higher, the net-after-tax economic payout is even lower.

To say that low bank interest rates is not a problem is Bunkum.
Most old people rely on such savings. to day in the UK bank interest paid to savings holders is less than 0.5% in the UK
This is way less than inflation. so savings are decreasing in value not growing.
However banks lend at way above the bank rate, and card loans are many time higher again.
Banks these days are in the business of "buying and selling" money. Not look after customers money,

 

[PureX]

I think it is very important that we not stereotype the poor, as some may be poor because of an unsustainable lifestyle they have while others may be poor because of no fault of their own.

Very often, those "unsustainable lifestyles" are not the fault of those living them, either. They happen because of ignorance, and disease, and abuse, and neglect. Think about it; do you really believe that anyone consciously CHOOSES to become a drunk, a drug addict, hopelessly unemployable, willfully ignorant, life-losers? So how did they get that way?

They got that way because they missed whatever, if any, opportunities they had to become something different. And in our culture, those opportunities are now only being offered to fewer and fewer people. And the rest are just being ignored, and blamed for their own loss.