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Paycheck to Paycheck

Akivah

Well-Known Member
Vast number of Americans live paycheck to paycheck

According to a survey by Career Builder, almost 80% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck (PtP), meaning they have no savings. Included in this figure are 10% of people that earn more than $100K per year.

The links claims that wage stagnation and inflation are the predominant causes of people's lack of economic stability. But I think personal choices play the biggest roles. There is the choice of getting training (40% of people with only high school degrees are PtP vs. 20% of people with college degrees), the choice of following a budget, and the choice of living below your means.

According to Dave Ramsey, anyone can get out of debt. It just takes willpower, planning, and sacrifice.
Do This First If You Want to Get Out of Debt
He has frequent callers of people from all walks of life that started out poor, but are now millionaires through these methods.

What do you think?
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I may do this myself when I have the time, but does anyone have a more reliable data reference than a survey from a career website that more than likely wasn't done with sound methodology? I'm aware that more reliable studies have been done demonstrating poor savings rates and high debt rates amongst Americans, but I like something a bit more solid to base things on.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
Vast number of Americans live paycheck to paycheck

According to a survey by Career Builder, almost 80% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck (PtP), meaning they have no savings. Included in this figure are 10% of people that earn more than $100K per year.

The links claims that wage stagnation and inflation are the predominant causes of people's lack of economic stability. But I think personal choices play the biggest roles. There is the choice of getting training (40% of people with only high school degrees are PtP vs. 20% of people with college degrees), the choice of following a budget, and the choice of living below your means.

According to Dave Ramsey, anyone can get out of debt. It just takes willpower, planning, and sacrifice.
Do This First If You Want to Get Out of Debt
He has frequent callers of people from all walks of life that started out poor, but are now millionaires through these methods.

What do you think?

And it takes luck. You can have all the will power, planning and sacrifice but one bad illness or disaster in the house or car and you are back to in debt.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Vast number of Americans live paycheck to paycheck

According to a survey by Career Builder, almost 80% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck (PtP), meaning they have no savings. Included in this figure are 10% of people that earn more than $100K per year.

The links claims that wage stagnation and inflation are the predominant causes of people's lack of economic stability. But I think personal choices play the biggest roles. There is the choice of getting training (40% of people with only high school degrees are PtP vs. 20% of people with college degrees), the choice of following a budget, and the choice of living below your means.

According to Dave Ramsey, anyone can get out of debt. It just takes willpower, planning, and sacrifice.
Do This First If You Want to Get Out of Debt
He has frequent callers of people from all walks of life that started out poor, but are now millionaires through these methods.

What do you think?
I think there are all sorts of reasons that people can't go to college, especially now that college tuitions are increasing exponentially relative to other costs. I think there are all sorts of reasons why "budgeting" will not result in savings, not the least of which is being trapped in a low-wage job that you can't afford to quit because the republican party has gutted social services and your children still need to eat, and get their shots, and wear cloths, and so on.

I think the people who are pillaging the wealth of this country through their greed and corruption want you to blame the poor and the suffering that their greed is causing on the poor and the suffering, so that you won't blame them, and so that you can pretend it won't happen to you, because you're better and smarter than all those poor suffering fools. And I think you're falling for their lies.
 

Holdasown

Active Member
17 years ago I quit smoking so we could afford to buy a house. I have gone without tv and internet when times were tight. Some would call that crazy. I still use a crappy tracfone at $20 a month. We think of gas mileage when buying our cars more than looks or what not. If you want to save 1000 fast, Christmas club with auto deposit. $20 a check which can be tight for some but you can't touch it till November. It has saved our butts more than once for car repair and tires.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Vast number of Americans live paycheck to paycheck

According to a survey by Career Builder, almost 80% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck (PtP), meaning they have no savings. Included in this figure are 10% of people that earn more than $100K per year.

The links claims that wage stagnation and inflation are the predominant causes of people's lack of economic stability. But I think personal choices play the biggest roles. There is the choice of getting training (40% of people with only high school degrees are PtP vs. 20% of people with college degrees), the choice of following a budget, and the choice of living below your means.

According to Dave Ramsey, anyone can get out of debt. It just takes willpower, planning, and sacrifice.
Do This First If You Want to Get Out of Debt
He has frequent callers of people from all walks of life that started out poor, but are now millionaires through these methods.

What do you think?
I alway try and have 100 paychecks in the bank. As soon as I win the lotto I will be there actually at least 5 net checks is the minimum I allow the balance to go down too. Most of the time. Not that I am any good with money.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Vast number of Americans live paycheck to paycheck

According to a survey by Career Builder, almost 80% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck (PtP), meaning they have no savings ... (40% of people with only high school degrees are PtP vs. 20% of people with college degrees) ... What do you think?

The numbers don't jibe. How can only 40% of high school graduates and 20% of college graduates combine to form 80% of Americans?
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
The numbers don't jibe. How can only 40% of high school graduates and 20% of college graduates combine to form 80% of Americans?
Doesn't say anything about non high-school graduates, I don't think. So they could be what makes up the difference? Seems like that might be quite a large number needing made up though - as I would guess there are more people with high school diplomas than without in this day and age.
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
Well, we know people do live paycheck to paycheck, but it won't answer why they do.

Is it because of the economy and inflation?

Or is it because of poor personal decision making?

Given case by case, I can probably make an argument that it's more due to decision making.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Vast number of Americans live paycheck to paycheck

According to a survey by Career Builder, almost 80% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck (PtP), meaning they have no savings. Included in this figure are 10% of people that earn more than $100K per year.

The links claims that wage stagnation and inflation are the predominant causes of people's lack of economic stability. But I think personal choices play the biggest roles. There is the choice of getting training (40% of people with only high school degrees are PtP vs. 20% of people with college degrees), the choice of following a budget, and the choice of living below your means.

According to Dave Ramsey, anyone can get out of debt. It just takes willpower, planning, and sacrifice.
Do This First If You Want to Get Out of Debt
He has frequent callers of people from all walks of life that started out poor, but are now millionaires through these methods.

What do you think?

If a person is getting a paycheck, gainfully employed. To me its simple math. If you make $3000 a month, don't spend $5000 a month. The temptation is always there to go in debt living beyond means.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Doesn't say anything about non high-school graduates, I don't think. So they could be what makes up the difference? Seems like that might be quite a large number needing made up though - as I would guess there are more people with high school diplomas than without in this day and age.

If 80% of Americans didn't finish the 12th grade, and 90% of them were living paycheck-to-paycheck, the total would approach 80%, but only if most of the rest were only high school graduates. If the other 20% were 16% high school graduates (but not college graduates), and 4% were college graduates, the would give us (0.8)(0.9) + (0.16)(0.4) + (0.04)(0.2) = 79.2%.

But is that realistic?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
What do you think?
It was long predicted, such as by John Naisbitt in his first book, "Megatrends", which was written in 1982. His reasoning was that the use of computers and robotics, the outsourcing of jobs due to lower wages elsewhere, and trade agreements would have this effect.

Great book, btw.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I know people who were in decent shape until a health care emergency wiped them out. The current regime in power in Washington wants to eliminate the tiny step we took to stop such things from happening.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
According to Dave Ramsey, anyone can get out of debt. It just takes willpower, planning, and sacrifice.
Do This First If You Want to Get Out of Debt
He has frequent callers of people from all walks of life that started out poor, but are now millionaires through these methods.
Reminds me of Carnegie's belief that if one doesn't become a millionaire it's because they're lazy, stupid, or both. Sorry, but that simply is false.

If every single person had a ph.d., we would still have unemployment and poverty in a free-market economy. There's only so much money to go around, and some are going to be haves, some have-nots, and some in-between. Yes, what Ramsey gets into can help pretty much anybody out, but it won't have the effect of eliminating poverty. Just ask all the Russian Jews who emigrated to Israel, many with advanced degrees, only to find no jobs available or only low-wage jobs.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Well, we know people do live paycheck to paycheck, but it won't answer why they do.

Is it because of the economy and inflation?

Or is it because of poor personal decision making?

Given case by case, I can probably make an argument that it's more due to decision making.
People are people. That isn't going to change by punishing them for being what they are. And unless we don't mind seeing our fellow humans starving and freezing to death while living under bridges and in alleys, and their dead bodies laying around in the streets, we are going to have to make accommodations for the way people are.

Also, keep in mind that it is the purpose of a society's economic system to SERVE THE PEOPLE within that society, and it is NOT the purpose of the people in a society to serve an economic system. Therefor, if our current economic system is not serving the people of our society, including the weak, the foolish, the unlucky, or whomever; then it is the system that is failing the people, and not the people failing the system.
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
People are people. That isn't going to change by punishing them for being what they are. And unless we don't mind seeing our fellow humans starving and freezing to death while living under bridges and in alleys, and their dead bodies laying around in the streets, we are going to have to make accommodations for the way people are.

Also, keep in mind that it is the purpose of a society's economic system to SERVE THE PEOPLE within that society, and it is NOT the purpose of the people in a society to serve an economic system. Therefor, if our current economic system is not serving the people of our society, including the weak, the foolish, the unlucky, or whomever; then it is the system that is failing the people, and not the people failing the system.

What? People are now starving and freezing to death while living under bridges and alleys with dead bodies laying around in the streets?

Well, I guess I can't really argue against such a profound argument.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
If 80% of Americans didn't finish the 12th grade, and 90% of them were living paycheck-to-paycheck, the total would approach 80%, but only if most of the rest were only high school graduates. If the other 20% were 16% high school graduates (but not college graduates), and 4% were college graduates, the would give us (0.8)(0.9) + (0.16)(0.4) + (0.04)(0.2) = 79.2%.

But is that realistic?
You're absolutely right, considering an inclusive/exhaustive group of:
  1. no high school diploma
  2. high school graduate
  3. college attendee
for only 40% of group 2 and 20% of group 3 to be living "paycheck-to-paycheck", the percentage needed of group 1 (that's percentage of total population across the 3 groups) to get to 80% of the whole group all being "paycheck-to-paycheck" would be over 80%. And there is no way that over 80% of Americans are without high school diplomas.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
What? People are now starving and freezing to death while living under bridges and alleys with dead bodies laying around in the streets?

Well, I guess I can't really argue against such a profound argument.
The statement was overly broad but there are people freezing to death - two in the county where I live a couple of years ago.
 
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