No name

[Orias]

My thing has a name.

Haha! My mind went into the gutter for a minute.

Thing is it's name.

Touche

 

[JayJayDee]

Ahh... but exactly how? Do others really see us? Isn't this instruction rather an internal one? Who knows you, but God, right?

It has been my experience that when God sees in someone a good and obedient heart, he will "draw" that person to become a disciple of his son. (John 6:44)
All that a true Christian does is in imitation of his conduct. When you really examine his teachings and how he expressed himself in relation to his teachings regarding worship, actions, motivation and attitudes, we start to appreciate what discipleship really entails.

Along with the "not to do's" there is a "to do" list as well. Some are good at one but not the other.

God doesn't want meaningless repetitive ritual or prayer. Mere performance of any spiritual activity is meaningless if we do not have an intimate relationship with God.
Worship has to come from the heart, but it also has to be based on accurate knowledge of the ones we serve.....Jehovah and his Christ. (John 17:3)

Knowing that there is an enemy lurking about, whose sole aim is to steer us away from the truth is paramount. Why is this so important? Because people assume that they cannot be misled; they assume that their strong conviction somehow makes them immune to his masterful, tried and tested deceptions.
It is sobering to remember that Jesus was the son of God and the long awaited 'seed of promise' to his fellow Jews; he fulfilled every prophesy written about him, yet God's own people were persuaded to view him as a fake. Along with powerful evidence from the operation of God's spirit, Jesus was sent to correct an apostate religious system and lead humble ones back to God. BUT only a relative "few" from that nation responded. WHY?
If you can answer that question and put it in a modern context, you will see a pattern.

If the person has actual spiritual depth and character, that they are humble and not some egotistical show-off pounding the pulpit and puffing his wares, then they may have some insight for you. But... you need to not rely on them to give you Answers with a capital A. To do so puts yourself at risk, in every way.

Do you think that God would leave faithful ones in the world without his guidance? Has he ever left us without "wheat" in this world full of "weeds"? There has always been that voice of truth dissenting among the power hungry. Small they may be in number, but when a heart is found to be 'good soil', a seed is planted and it is God who makes it grow. (1 Cor 3:6) He has planters and waterers, but no one can see into a person's heart but God. He will see to it that truth is planted and watered but actions must follow.

There is a double-edged sword here. If you wish to have a supportive community there must be certain structures, of course. BUT, any organization inherently creates power positions that the agressive always move into, who are driven by control issues. It doesn't matter what that organization is! Now we're talking things like how churches are governed. Who gets into power? How do they get there? Who appoints them? Where are they at? Etc. You see, this is hardly some magical ideal that happens because you believe in God. Churches are rife with politics and power plays. Is God really "in charge" of these organizations? You answer that.

And that is precisely how you tell the difference between something God sets up and something promoted by the devil. There must of necessity be order and organization, but there can never be dictators. No one is "boss" except Jesus, who himself answers to his Father. There have always been "shepherds" appointed to care for the flock, but these are accountable to the "Great Shepherd" for how they do this.
There is never just one man who is given oversight unaccountably.

There are no power positions in God's arrangement, just positions of responsibility. Humble servants recognize themselves as such. (Luke 17:7-10)

Red flags start waving. Jim Jones, appointed by God. Submit yourself. Drink the Kool-Aid laced with cyanide because you need to 'believe God'. Bull. How do you discern here? Not everything is spelled out the Bible, you know? Perhaps you need to first start with what is within you, between you and God, and not the "pastor"? Boy, that's my recommendation.

I couldn't agree more! We are also required to exercise common sense. That is why we are instructed NOT to follow the teachings of any man. That is a cult and those who have fallen for the charisma of theses cult leaders have all come to grief.

Jesus said to look at the "fruits" and see what kind of people are produced. Rotten trees do not produce good fruitage and vice versa. Remembering, of course that it is God's view of the fruitage, not man's.

Who says they were "older"? You mean because it uses the word "elder"? That's a position in the church, and has nothing to do with someone's age, other than the obviously weren't babies.

Of course we are talking about their spiritual age, not their literal age. Age is tied up with wisdom, so the term "elder" is appropriate.

But you were just saying you need to submit to those in charge. That is a hierarchy. If you are suspicious of hierarchies, then you have my attention.

I have always had a problem with hierarchies when seeing how the churches set themselves up. The fancy titles, the funny robes and headgear, the rituals, pomp and ceremony and the idolatry....sickened me. This is not Christianity, this is Christendom! And never the twain shall meet! God has a "people" who are no part of that system. I went searching for them and was getting to the point of losing my faith altogether....then they found me. The last people on earth I expected to have the truth....hated and spoken against everywhere; (Acts 28:22) I almost fell for the same propaganda that swayed the Jews to reject Jesus....the court of public opinion.

Well, that's the question isn't it? Who really understands this message about the Kingdom of God? Do they?

Only one people on earth understand what the "good news about God's kingdom really is and are taking it to "the entire inhabited earth" (Matt 24:14). Christendom doesn't have a clue and are not known for their evangelism.

But that one truth, is it something that is outside you? Or is it something within you you need to find?

I believe that it is something within you that God finds. He then leads you to the truth. Like a horse to water though, he will not force you to drink. That is your choice. But my personal experience was that I had found what I had been searching for all my life. The more I learned, the more I wanted to know. I wasn't aware of my 'hunger' until I started to sample what was being offered.

 

[JayJayDee]

But that one truth, is it something that is outside you? Or is it something within you you need to find?

It is within all who have the right heart attitude. Only God can see this. It is not manifest in a person's lifecourse necessarily because some who have led dreadful lives have been drawn to the truth when they heard it. Some in prison, even on death row have repented and died with forgiveness and hope and a clean conscience. That is why it is offered to all without prejudice. (Acts 10:34, 35)

Well, I disagree, mostly. In the sense you probably mean it, anyway. I believe Truth is always there, and various individuals 'haphazardly' find it. Then it speaks through them. I do not believe in any "appointed individuals", rather "Those who hear, let them hear". Follow?

Sometimes "haphazard" is really not really so co-incidental. The truth IS always there but not many recognize it as such because they have a mind set about the way things "should" be from their own personal view. We actually have to put down our personal views and read God's word without pre-conceived notions. I think we would be amazed at how much is "programmed" into us from birth. Nothing is as it appears on the surface. That is why the truth is likened to buried treasure. It is not lying around on the surface....it is buried, but not by God.

We are provided with a 'shovel' and the motivation to keep digging.....so the more gems we can bring to the surface, the more determined we will be to keep digging.

You have to lay down your small self. I don't believe just joining a group equals that family. I believe that family, to call it that, transcends any organization. I believe this Kingdom of God, is beyond any church or any religion. Don't you?

I had always been confused about this question. Not so much because I discounted the idea of it, but because I had seen what man did with it. Power corrupts, every time.

It is my conclusion now however, that God's "people" are found in every tribe, tongue and nation and that these are brought into one family of worshippers who all, of necessity, must believe one truth. ( 1 Cor 1:10) There are not many versions of truth except in the minds of men. (ask any judge in a courtroom) Spiritually speaking, there can only be one truth and God is the one inviting right hearted people into his family. He has only one.

I believe when he gives the clear command to his "people" to "get out of Babylon the great" (before he brings about her destruction,) that he has somewhere for them to go. (Rev 18:4, 5)

Just do what? I get the first part of this, but what I understand as "just do it", is to be your True self. That's what God sees. What happens from there....

It's about the "to do" and "not to do" lists. We find out what God wants us to do and we do it. We also need to know what NOT to do so that we do not offend our God by inadvertently disobeying him. How could we do that? One example is that we may be convinced that military service for a Christian is a duty and that it is OK with God to kill people who are our 'enemies' because our government, backed up by our church, tells us to. Consciences are salved and war means taking even innocent human life. God never gave man the right to take innocent lives.

Jesus said we had to "love our enemies and pray for those persecuting us" (Matt 5:43, 44)...how do you do that with a weapon? A Christian has no real enemies except the devil. If you 'love' (agape) someone, how can you perceive them as enemies?

Jesus never retaliated even when he was being cruelly persecuted and tortured.

The apostle Paul said "Return evil for evil to no one. Provide fine things in the sight of all men.  If possible, as far as it depends upon you, be peaceable with all men.  Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “Vengeance is mine; I will repay, says Jehovah.”  But, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals upon his head.”  Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good." (Romans 12:17-21)

Who do you see following this admonition? I see only my own brotherhood making that kind of commitment to God by not getting roped into the whole nationalism thing. A Christian has no 'nation'. He is a citizen of God's kingdom, which recognizes no nation as having sovereignty over him. We are admonished to obey the laws of our land but when they require us to disobey God and his Christ we will not obey them. (Acts 5:29)

Jesus also tells us to be "no part of the world". What did he mean?
He identified satan as "the god of this world" who blinds people's minds to the Bible's life saving message. (2 Cor 4:3, 4)

If a person has one foot in the world and one foot in Christianity, he is divided. We must choose because we can't serve two masters. One wants us to break God's law and the other wants us to separate from the world. That means being no part of its politics, greed or false religion. This is a choice we all have to make.

 

[Horrorble]

When you know someone's name...what kind of relationship do you usually have with them?

That's a weird question... We have many different relationships with people we know the name of. I can tell you my name now and I'll still be just another person on this forum to you, like everyone else.

 

[starlite]

That's a weird question... We have many different relationships with people we know the name of. I can tell you my name now and I'll still be just another person on this forum to you, like everyone else.

The key is in the word "know"....

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Haha! My mind went into the gutter for a minute.

No doubt.

 

[Gaura Priya]

The key is in the word "know"....

As in the 'Biblical' sense...?

:foot:

*cough*

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Have you ever known anyone without a name?

It was in the movies from Clint Eastwood.

 

[savagewind]

People with Alzheimer's dementia know people without names and even without recognition. What I mean by one example is this: The mother of my friend knows the people helping her belong to her and can be trusted but she does not know who they are and does not know their names.

 

[starlite]

People with Alzheimer's dementia know people without names and even without recognition. What I mean by one example is this: The mother of my friend knows the people helping her belong to her and can be trusted but she does not know who they are and does not know their names.

You've missed the point again....