Mor tolerance on RF

[LuisDantas]

I am going to have to say something here...

First, non-religious and secular people have a tendency to say, "Why won't you compromise on religion? Why can't gay people marry? it's 2017 already."

But when we do make those concessions, they say,

"Oh, so you only cherry pick the parts of your religion that you like? You're a hypocrite.vYou're not doing what your book/prophet/whatever tells you to do."

So we can't win.

Not by an Abrahamic set of expectations, I would think.

That is IMO a serious flaw of that family of beliefs, although it can be transcended.

 

[Rival]

Not by an Abrahamic set of expectations, I would think.

That is IMO a serious flaw of that family of beliefs, although it can be transcended.

No, it's not our set of expectations - it's yours. We will practice our faith how we see fit, it's you guys who ask us to change

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Guys i cant and wont compromise in matters of religion.
I dont want to become apostate, losing the here after.

If u want a huggable muslim/hippiemuslim/yes-man then u are talking to wrong person.


But other than that, we can work against extremism(christian terrorism, muslim terrorism, and all forms of terrorism).


Thats my point.

 

[Spiderman]

Guys i cant and wont compromise in matters of religion.
I dont want to become apostate, losing the here after.

But other than that, we can work against extremism(christian terrorism, muslim terrorism, and all forms of terrorism).

Thats my point.

Who are these crusaders you often speak of?

 

[Twilight Hue]

It will escalate when Trump gets into the White House and starts rolling out the Muslim registry and Mosque Surveillence. people will be emboldened to criticise and abuse Muslims as it acts as a social proof of "everyone's doing it". It doesn't matter if it's rational or if it's true- it will just become acceptable as its reached "a tipping point". It will be on the news non-stop and everyone will talk about it. Not joining in will be treated as a sign of weakness or disloyalty. It's not fair but If Plan A is asking people to "play nice" You're going to need a plan B.

Sometimes a religion needs to be givin a hard and proper black eye so to speak in order to realise the rest of the world won't put up with all the abuse and murdering.

Christinaty learned it's lesson collectively.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Who are these crusaders you often speak of?

Personaly i believe the western occupation of muslim lands is extension of crusade(in this case Neo-Crusade).

 

[LuisDantas]

No, it's not our set of expectations - it's yours. We will practice our faith how we see fit, it's you guys who ask us to change

Well, you mentioned some sort of win that was not achievable. I assumed there was an expectation that it should be attainable.

 

[FearGod]

Yes it is a disgusting thing when human rights, free speech, and women are oppressed in the name of an invisible silent God and ancient incoherent text that contradicts itself

We feel it disgusting that your freedom made your women to be treated as sex objects.

 

[Tumah]

Personaly i believe the western occupation of muslim lands is extension of crusade(in this case Neo-Crusade).

I guess the obvious question is: what do you actually know about the Crusades?

 

[YmirGF]

There is some uneasy tensions between muslims and non-muslims on RF.
We need to chill out and let not escalate things.

I'm already as respectful as I feel is warranted. Any more would give me the dry heaves, like a cat sicking up a hairball.

 

[Jainarayan]

No compromise in matters of religion

So... no desire to understand or respect others' religions?

 

[columbus]

Personaly i believe the western occupation of muslim lands is extension of crusade(in this case Neo-Crusade).

So do I.
Yeah, you read that right. I am completely agreeing with Servant on this.
We westerners don't much use the word crusade the way we used to do. We like to pretend that the Crusades ended centuries ago. But they didn't. The Bush presidents launched multiple wars in the Islamic world. And as usual, it was about power and greed. Couched in religious terms when it suited their agenda. I remember George W Bush describing the invasion of Iraq as a Crusade and having "prayed on it, real hard". And he had solid support from the USA Christians because they bought it.

We westerners have stopped using the term crusader, mostly, to refer to warring. Like Muslims have mostly stopped referring to warring as jihad. But they both do it. Jihad and Crusade mean the same thing.

And I am pretty sure that the Bush Crusades caused more death and destruction than ISIS's Jihad.
So, yes, I see the western wars and occupations in the Islamic world as Crusades. The west is just better at kidding themselves that their mercenary and proxy armies aren't religious people motivated by greed.
Tom

 

[Jainarayan]

Personaly i believe the western occupation of muslim lands is extension of crusade(in this case Neo-Crusade).

Are you saying those governments are so inept and impotent they cannot end occupation of their lands? Are you saying it's someone else's fault?

 

[Revoltingest]

And I am pretty sure that the Bush Crusades caused more death and destruction than ISIS's Jihad.

That's a bad presumption.
Even during 'peacetime', Saddam Hussein was killing a great many people.
An old Nat Geo article had it pegged at about 20K per month as I recall.
The war would've actually reduced the number of Muslim deaths.
(A friend lived in pre-war Iraq, & saw firsthand how deadly things were.)

Even if one disputes the number I remember, this points out that one
shouldn't glibly proclaim Bush a death monger without some cogent analysis.
A better argument could be made against Reagan for his involvement in
the Iraq-Iran war.

 

[columbus]

Are you saying those governments are so inept and impotent they cannot end occupation of their lands? Are you saying it's someone else's fault?

No, they're corrupt.
Largely because westerners have overthrown the honest governments and propped up governments like Saddam Hussein, the Taliban, and the Saudis.
Tom

 

[Augustus]

So, yes, I see the western wars and occupations in the Islamic world as Crusades. The west is just better at kidding themselves that their mercenary and proxy armies aren't religious people motivated by greed.

If they are motivated by greed, rather than an attempt to recapture the Holy Lands for Christendom, why are they Crusades?

 

[columbus]

Even during 'peacetime', Saddam Hussein was killing a great many people.

The USA supported Saddam Hussein back when he was gassing his own people and warring against Iran. He was a USA puppet.
Until he failed at what the USA wanted. Then we killed him.
Tom

 

[columbus]

If they are motivated by greed, rather than an attempt to recapture the Holy Lands for Christendom, why are they Crusades?

Because a Crusade is when a Christian decides to pursue a goal, with little regard for the damage done.
Why do you suppose Bush referred to the invasion of Iraq as a Crusade? It's because Christians are very willing to indulge in Crusades.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

The USA supported Saddam Hussein back when he was gassing his own people and warring against Iran. He was a USA puppet.
Until he failed at what the USA wanted. Then we killed him.
Tom

Sounds like you agree with my post, eh.

 

[Augustus]

Because a Crusade is when a Christian decides to pursue a goal, with little regard for the damage done.
Why do you suppose Bush referred to the invasion of Iraq as a Crusade? It's because Christians are very willing to indulge in Crusades.
Tom

So the secular Jewish ex-Trotskyist neo-con ideologues were in fact Crusaders?

What about the vocally pro-war anti-theist Christopher Hitchens?

Were Albania, Kazakhstan and Bosnia Crusaders or Jihadis when they sent troops to join the coalition?

While we are at it, was WW2 a Crusade too?