MLK

[metis]

So, we will know in 2027 when records are released, there are a few stories circulating about MLK

We need to face the whole truth about Martin Luther King, Jr.

The new MLK sculpture in Boston

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2023/01/15/mlk-statue-boston-backlash/

Some part of me thinks the artist knew a little something about MLK's past. Thoughts?

What comes to mind is "Let he whom is without sin cast the first stone."

Most of us celebrate what a person did that made our world a better place, not that such a person is perfect.

 

[idea]

...

Recognising the flaws of great people is healthy though. It reminds us that we are all flawed, and to be less judgemental as our mistakes don't define us. It also is a good way to understand the changing values of past societies.

I think we should celebrate people's great achievements, and if they did things wrong we can learn about those too.

I think it is important for societies to have inspirational figures, and also those who help tell the story (or perhaps mythos) of a society.

What is celebrated is how they changed society for the better (and they are often really a personification of a much broader series of actors). We don't need them to be saints, and there needn't be a choice between promoting only whitewashed hagiography or them being cancelled.

I agree with recognizing flaws. I believe we are defined by both the good and the bad in us. I also believe authority figures should be held to a higher standard - not lower - when it comes to evaluating them.

Plenty of examples of authority figures who were not criticized - when they should have been. Power corrupts when authority figures are not accountable.

 

[idea]

What comes to mind is "Let he whom is without sin cast the first stone."

Most of us celebrate what a person did that made our world a better place, not that such a person is perfect.

Hitler came into power by educated, patriotic, upstanding citizens who found no fault in their leader.

No leader should ever be put on any pedestal.

It's never a single person who does anything - all the people - not any single person - the entire community is responsible for all changes. By the people.

 

[metis]

Hitler came into power by educated, patriotic, upstanding citizens who found no fault in their leader.

And that was definitely a problem, and we have seen much the same here in the States with millions who supported Trump, and some still do.

No leader should ever be put on any pedestal.

We all have our "heroes", but what we should recognize is that none of them is perfect.

It's never a single person who does anything - all the people - not any single person - the entire community is responsible for all changes. By the people.

A "group" is made up of a multitude of "single persons", and hopefully we each bring something to the table. Thus, we should never deny the contributions of a single person and only focus in on the mass.

 

[idea]

And that was definitely a problem, and we have seen much the same here in the States with millions who supported Trump, and some still do.

We all have our "heroes", but what we should recognize is that none of them is perfect.

A "group" is made up of a multitude of "single persons", and hopefully we each bring something to the table. Thus, we should never deny the contributions of a single person and only focus in on the mass.

We should be transparent with both the good and the bad in everyone. Progress comes with transparency.

Attaching principles to a hero isn't good. When the hero falls, often the principle is lost.

 

[metis]

We should be transparent with both the good and the bad in everyone. Progress comes with transparency.

I don't have a problem with that as long as people do it honestly and fairly and not use stereotyping.

 

[Left Coast]

I eventually found them.
But I found the criticism weak.
I've no strong opinions about MLK one way or the other.
But his new statue sucks....except as fodder for discussion.

The statue is definitely weird, no doubt. People aren't even gonna know what they're looking at when they walk by.

 

[Augustus]

agree with recognizing flaws. I believe we are defined by both the good and the bad in us. I also believe authority figures should be held to a higher standard - not lower - when it comes to evaluating them.

Plenty of examples of authority figures who were not criticized - when they should have been. Power corrupts when authority figures are not accountable.

But we can recognise flaws while also celebrating achievements. This is the hero/saint distinction.

It's never a single person who does anything - all the people - not any single person - the entire community is responsible for all changes. By the people.

But processes are intrinsically less interesting and communicable than people who are emblematic of these processes.

Even if we tried not to focus on leaders of these processes, but on the 'average person', we would still need to find individuals who were emblematic of the people we are trying to portray.

Dry, abstract narratives just aren't great for mass popular consumption.

 

[Augustus]

The statue is definitely weird, no doubt. People aren't even gonna know what they're looking at when they walk by.

It's an absolute shocker. There really is a lot of **** public art these days (and the occasional good stuff).

 

[Revoltingest]

The statue is definitely weird, no doubt. People aren't even gonna know what they're looking at when they walk by.

I here by dub the new statue...
Martin Luther Ding(us)

 

[idea]

But we can recognise flaws while also celebrating achievements. This is the hero/saint distinction.

Most history books and statues do not show the flaws, and this is a problem I think.

But processes are intrinsically less interesting and communicable than people who are emblematic of these processes.

Even if we tried not to focus on leaders of these processes, but on the 'average person', we would still need to find individuals who were emblematic of the people we are trying to portray.

Dry, abstract narratives just aren't great for mass popular consumption.

I think it is more interesting to show both the bad and the good, to learn from both. Dry? Abstract? It becomes abstract and dry when only the good side is shown.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It's an absolute shocker. There really is a lot of **** public art these days (and the occasional good stuff).

Artists today are typically lazy and inept compared to artists of old.

 

[idea]

The statue is definitely weird, no doubt. People aren't even gonna know what they're looking at when they walk by.

I like it. Art should generate conversations, should allow each to explore their own thoughts.

MLK resting on his wife, leaning on her, being supported by her? Or... MLK oppressing his wife, pushing her down, cheating on her. Two sides. Was she right to support him? Was she strong? Or was she weak to stay? The embrace, good name for it, good conversation starter, good food for thought.

 

[Augustus]

Most history books and statues do not show the flaws, and this is a problem I think.

Never read any books on MLK, but books I've read on other 'heroes' usually do.

I think it is more interesting to show both the bad and the good, to learn from both. Dry? Abstract? It becomes abstract and dry when only the good side is shown.

This was in response to your idea about focus on principles not people.

Do you agree using flawed figures as emblematic of broader processes is beneficial as long as we try to portray them accurately?

 

[Aštra’el]

Apparently, people are mad because the statue looks phallic from certain angles:

A Masturbatory ‘Homage’ to My Family

“By now, I’m sure you’ve seen it. The new Boston sculpture “honoring” Dr. Martin Luther King and his wife, Coretta Scott King, looks more like a pair of hands hugging a beefy penis than a special moment shared by the iconic couple. Created by the organization Embrace Boston, the sculpture has inspired mad jokes on Twitter, and rightly so. But for my family, it’s rather insulting….

Ten million dollars were wasted to create a masturbatory metal homage to my legendary family members— one of the all time greatest American families…

So now Boston has a big bronze penis statue that’s supposed to represent black love at its purest and most devotional. This is no accident. The woke algorithm is racist and classist. Therefore, its programming will always produce things that harm black and poor people. This sculpture is an especially egregious example of the woke machine’s callousness and vanity. Hopefully, it will show more black people that these progressives just aren’t in this for our benefit.”


‘Woke’ $10M MLK ‘penis’ statue insults black community: Coretta Scott King kin

Boston's Martin Luther King Jr. statue slammed: 'Ugliest thing ever'

 

[idea]

Never read any books on MLK, but books I've read on other 'heroes' usually do.



This was in response to your idea about focus on principles not people.

Do you agree using flawed figures as emblematic of broader processes is beneficial as long as we try to portray them accurately?

Few read entire books on leaders. The short version - paragraph in textbook - glance at statue - should show both sides I think.

Yes, I agree we learn from stories - accurate stories. We should each write our own story, not follow/copy the story of another. Another problem with hero/saint figures, the tendency to copy/follow/loyalty/dependence to another person rather than research, combine multiple examples (not loyal to any individual), and formulate individual ideas.

Plagiarism kills progress. Hero worship is form of plagiarism.
Responsible research combing multiple sources is needed. We should emphasize never relying on any single person, never rely on any single source.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Google it - "was MLK adulterous?"

No. I asked you to provide credible links. Can you do so?

 

[idea]

No. I asked you to provide credible links. Can you do so?

What one person believes to be credible another does not, so it is best to leave everyone with their own research.

Below is good.

Article from a few years ago by the historian cited in the OP's first link:

 

[jbg]

I have mixed feelings about MLK. At his best he was loquacious and inspiring. On the other hand there's some aspect of "good cop" vs. "bad cop." Put simply the implicit bargain was that the majority could choose between dealing with him. or what was called "black power" types such as H. Rap Brown or Stokely Carmichael.

 

[Aštra’el]

At an event set to honor the civil rights icon Martin Luther King, President Biden sang Happy Birthday to MLK’s daughter-in-law- Arndrea Waters King… but completely forgot her name mid-song and just mumbled incoherently instead:

Biden forgets name of MLK’s daughter-in-law while singing ‘Happy Birthday’ to her

Biden forgets MLK III's wife's name while singing her Happy Birthday

Biden forgets name of MLK's daughter-in-law during 'Happy Birthday'

President Biden forgets MLK’s daughter-in-law's name while singing "Happy Birthday" to her

“Happy Birthday dear… vwaaaowoeeeh…”
-President Joe Biden, 2023