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Featured Lying

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by gnostic, Jan 23, 2023 at 9:06 AM.

  1. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    Is it ever morally acceptable to lie, especially if you were lying for your god, lying for one of your prophets, messiahs or messengers, or for your religion?

    Is it a sin to use God’s name when you lie?

    And what are the consequences for sinning in the name of God? Do God punish them for each lie people tell?
     
  2. Eddi

    Eddi Eddifying
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    I'd imagine it would be morally acceptable to lie were it done to save another human (or yourself) from being murdered
     
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  3. The Sum of Awe

    The Sum of Awe Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.

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    It is best to be honest as often as possible for legitimacy reasons.
     
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  4. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    I mean, there are gods whose domains include lies, subterfuge, and deceit, so... yes? Particularly if you are serving such gods?
     
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  5. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Considering all matters, chose the path that does the least harm. To me, that is the guiding principle for 'to lie or not to lie'.
     
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  6. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Leaderless Animal

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    My mum had dementia. I regularly had the choice between lying to her or needlessly upsetting her by being honest. I lied to her regularly.
     
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  7. VoidCat

    VoidCat Pronouns: any and all including it/it's and neo

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    Lying is a great tool for survival in some circumstances
     
  8. Soandso

    Soandso Member

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    I have no qualms about lying to people who unfairly weild their power or deal with others in cruelty
     
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  9. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I don't lie, it's just a thing i have, i loath liers, I'd prefer an honest thief to a liar. I need no god for this
    Of course i may be economical with the truth sometimes, when needed.
     
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  10. Hermit Philosopher

    Hermit Philosopher Selflessly here for you

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    What do you mean by “lying for your god”? Can you give an example, please?

    Christians consider it a sin to do many things in God’s name, including lying.

    If not within this lifetime, the consequences of all sin is experienced during one’s stage of spiritual judgement. It’s experienced as if it were happening to oneself.


    Humbly
    Hermit
     
  11. F1fan

    F1fan Veteran Member

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    To lie suggests a person understands they are saying untrue things. One way to lie to others honestly is to convince the self that some false idea is true. We see many fervent believers say false claims over and over again despite being corrected. This becomes a habit of belief and lying, and that suggests an inner conflict and confusion about what is true versus false. This pattern of lying can move from being deliberate to habitual, and at that point is the person able to assess and recognize their flawed thinking?
     
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  12. Soandso

    Soandso Member

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    I feel you, here. This is usually the way I opperate. That said, if pushed to do so, I can lie if needed. A situation like hiding Jewish people in my basement during the holocaust cpmes to mind. Since it's a skill I never cared to cultivate, I'm not good at it, though

    Thinking about it, any time I've ever tried to lie in the past, I've cringed inwardly very deeply when attempting to do so - it's an uncontrollable and uncomfortable feeling. I wonder if compulsive liers are born without that inner cringing, or if they do it so much that they've managed to work past that inner sensation so that it's not even noticeable?
     
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  13. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    See @F1fan post above, i think it becomes natural, some don't realise they are lying.
     
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  14. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    You shall not bare false witness against neighbor. That included 'gossip'.
    Puts a different perspective on what is meant by 'lie'.
     
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  15. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    As did my Mom. One day we were visiting her in hospital in July, and she said that it was a pretty snowfall last night. "Yes, Mom, it sure was." Personally, I think this focus on 'Lying is BAD' is too heavy in certain mass consciousnesses of today.
     
    #15 Vinayaka, Jan 23, 2023 at 10:46 AM
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2023 at 11:10 AM
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  16. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Choose an appropriate meaning.
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    Lying is and has been the norm for the larger majority of humans since ..... Best not to though if one can't keep tabs on which lie was told when. :oops:
     
  17. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    "Pious fraud is a term applied to describe fraudulent practices used to advance a religious cause or belief. This type of fraud may, by religious apologists, be explained as a case of the ends justify the means, in that if people are saved from eternal damnation, then it's perfectly fine to tell a few fibs and perform some magic tricks."

    "What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church … a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them." - Martin Luther
     
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  18. Ponder This

    Ponder This Well-Known Member

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    Is it ever morally acceptable to lie?

    Short Answer: It is immoral to lie.

    Long Answer:
    If someone answers your question...
    How do you know that person isn't lying?
     
  19. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    Interesting question, and I thought of that after having read a few ancient texts recently about the martyrdom of polycarp. I had thought then, that perhaps what paul said about eating 'food given to idols' was an inconsistent parallel, in that one could technically do something like lie, by eating that food, and thereby be able to keep promoting the faith, in a corporeal way. But then, the gospel also has passages talking about how what 'comes out of your mouth makes you unclean,' as opposed to what goes in.

    I wonder if the question is kind of centered on an Abrahamic view, or not. I guess I would say that, because it seems like that religious system sort of generally puts a rather austere weight on verbal confessions, as needing to match one's internal beliefs. Then again, maybe most religion sort of does that, in that they all probably want your verbal expressions to be reflective of them, most of the time.

    I guess you are asking if deception is allowed. I'm not sure, but I think certain religious systems might / might have integrated the trickster god as being somewhat respectable, or as being a part of a divine harmony, rather than as being something to be cast as the opposite of the good god(s), and therefore something worth no respect. I don't know
     
  20. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    Perhaps lying for god, is not accurate, but lying for one’s religion, often to prevent scandals.

    For instances, such as hiding or covering up scandals, to protect the religions or sects, as in the case of child abuse committed by clergy. The leadership of the churches have hidden these crime from authorities for decades.

    Should these leaders be held responsible for these cover-ups? Is cover-up considered a lie? Are such lies considered to be sins?
     
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