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Lying

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by savagewind, Mar 9, 2018.

  1. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Most people who I have seen speak of lying say it is lying only if the person is saying something that he or she knows isn't true.

    And, I am tending to agree with that conclusion.

    BUT

    Saying something that isn't true, but not knowing it isn't, is perfect proof of the person's willingness to lie..... subconscious though it might be.

    Let's say that every mind is actually just a part of one mind. Then, a person's willingness to lie supports the liars' lies.

    If a person will speak what isn't true without knowing, why is lying knowingly bad? It isn't!
     
  2. sandandfoam

    sandandfoam Veteran Member

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    Lies are the glue that holds society together. 'Honesty', whatever that is, is overrated.
     
  3. bobhikes

    bobhikes Nowoligist
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    You need to change your defintion

    Lying is a person saying something they know isn't true to gain an advantage. It's the to gain an advantage that determines it being bad. No one lies just to lie they lie for a reason.
     
  4. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    OK. Society needs a do-over, imo.
     
  5. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    It's more than just knowing it's untrue, lies presume deliberate deception.
    I don't consider telling a bedtime story or singing Puff the Magic Dragon to be lying.
     
  6. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    Does this kilt make me look fat?
     
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  7. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    OK. But I see many, many times that some people lie without knowing what they say isn't true to gain an advantage.

    An example? The end is very near, so you should exit the ways of society, do what we say you should do and you will be rewarded. The Bible says so!
     
  8. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Oh yes, of course. I wasn't talking about stories. I am talking about the things people believe in to obey.
     
  9. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    If a fat person is offended by someone saying she looks fat, if she asked for it, then I would just say I can't answer you!
     
  10. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I would say, "I am NOT going there!".
     
  11. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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  12. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    If someone asked me if what she put on isn't flattering I would tell her what I really thought, but kindly. I am a fast thinking.
     
  13. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    The willingness to lie to gain an advantage is making licenses for the people who know they lie to gain an advantage.

    That is my theory. It is what the thread is about.
     
  14. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    OK. An answer to, "does this make me look fat?"

    Q. "Does this make me look fat?"

    A. "Why are you asking ME?"
     
  15. bobhikes

    bobhikes Nowoligist
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    That is not a lie, there are no specific's, its a vague statement and a prediction. Even if you state the world is going to end tomorrow it is a prediction until tomorrow now when tomorrow comes and you say "see the world ended" that would be a lie.
     
  16. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I suppose you are not on the side of the truth. Am I correct?
     
  17. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    There is a huge difference between saying, "I believe that tomorrow the world will end", and "God has made known to me that tomorrow the world will end".
     
  18. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

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    I think that what we collectively refer to in the English language as lying is actually many actions and intentions that don't belong under one label. Malicious lying is clearly not the same as saving a person by lying. That's if we're willing to have a complex and serious discussion about ethics rather than stand by a response hammered into us by a narrow puritanical society.
     
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  19. bobhikes

    bobhikes Nowoligist
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    Truth is fine and good and there is truth in defining things properly. It is problematic expanding a definition to fit your world view.

    A lie is a lie. There are many other ways people twist and manipulate the truth and not all of it is lying understanding that is key to not falling prey to untruths.
     
  20. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Good point! But, Jesus was silent instead of lying, I think.

    I am thinking of the SS coming to my house and asking, "are there any Jews here?" You need not lie. Just don't say anything. They are going to search anyway. And, if the one asking was actually human, he might know about shock.
     
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