Lying

[savagewind]

Romans 2:21-22
you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?

And, you who say people should not lie, do you tell lies?

OR

is lying alright?

 

[savagewind]

If lying is right sometimes and we are not to judge because we can't then lying is right all the time.

That is the subject.

 

[Nous]

In the scenario I gave, the woman stated what was true to the best of her knowledge. To state what is true to the best of one's knowledge does not demonstrate a "willingness to lie," much less is it "perfect proof" of a willingness to lie.

It is a willingness to lie.

Again, your reasoning is fallacious. To state as true what is true to the best of one's knowledge does not demonstrate, much less constitute "perfect proof" of, a willingness to knowingly assert a falsehood as the truth (i.e., lie).

 

[savagewind]

Again, your reasoning is fallacious. To state as true what is true to the best of one's knowledge does not demonstrate, much less constitute "perfect proof" of, a willingness to knowingly assert a falsehood as the truth (i.e., lie).

If I do not know something and pretend that I do, what is that called, in your opinion?

 

[Nous]

If I do not know something and pretend that I do, what is that called, in your opinion?

There is no pretense in stating what is true to the best of one's knowledge. And there is obviously no demonstration of one's willingness to knowingly state a falsehood in stating what is true to the best of one's knowledge.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Most people who I have seen speak of lying say it is lying only if the person is saying something that he or she knows isn't true.

And, I am tending to agree with that conclusion.

BUT

Saying something that isn't true, but not knowing it isn't, is perfect proof of the person's willingness to lie..... subconscious though it might be.

Let's say that every mind is actually just a part of one mind. Then, a person's willingness to lie supports the liars' lies.

If a person will speak what isn't true without knowing, why is lying knowingly bad? It isn't!

A lie is an intentional misrepresentation of the truth. If something false is said without knowing... it's simply false. A person could be wrong. And a wrong person should be corrected. But to insist that a wrong person is always a liar is unfair, because you could be wrong without being malicious.

The only thing that proves a person's willingness to lie is for that person to tell a lie.

 

[WalterTrull]

What is the truth of a dream? If you find it, spread it around. Here's lookin' at you kid.

 

[savagewind]

A lie is an intentional misrepresentation of the truth. If something false is said without knowing... it's simply false. A person could be wrong. And a wrong person should be corrected. But to insist that a wrong person is always a liar is unfair, because you could be wrong without being malicious.

The only thing that proves a person's willingness to lie is for that person to tell a lie.

This is good. What about if being wrong won't be corrected because the person loves what he or she believes in?

 

[Poisonshady313]

This is good. What about if being wrong won't be corrected because the person loves what he or she believes in?

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

 

[Nakosis]

Most people who I have seen speak of lying say it is lying only if the person is saying something that he or she knows isn't true.

And, I am tending to agree with that conclusion.

BUT

Saying something that isn't true, but not knowing it isn't, is perfect proof of the person's willingness to lie..... subconscious though it might be.

Let's say that every mind is actually just a part of one mind. Then, a person's willingness to lie supports the liars' lies.

If a person will speak what isn't true without knowing, why is lying knowingly bad? It isn't!

There are folks that will use the truth against you. Rarely do I ever lie, but I'm not against it. Some folks don't deserve the truth. They'll take the truth and crap all over it.

Didn't even Jesus say something about casting pearls before swine?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

It is about "good" lying breeding "bad" lying.

Is there even a connection between the two though?

 

[bobhikes]

Sometimes there is no advantage to a lie, but yet sometimes people still do it (kids can especially fall in this category).

I would need an example. Some things comedians lie for humor, kids lie to see the reaction it generates these are both advantages they get from the lie. Kids also lie for humor and to learn both are advantages.

 

[savagewind]

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I don't know why people are thinking "malice", but it's funny.
Stupid is unwise. Stupid isn't malice.

 

[Poisonshady313]

I don't know why people are thinking "malice", but it's funny.
Stupid is unwise. Stupid isn't malice.

lying is malice.

 

[savagewind]

Is there even a connection between the two though?

I am proposing that there is a connection. According to the popular opinion, a person who communicates untruth isn't lying unless it is done on purpose to harm someone else.

But, who is the judge of what is harmful? I am not. Are you?

 

[savagewind]

lying is malice.

LOL. So, does my butt look too fat?

 

[Poisonshady313]

LOL. So, does my butt look too fat?

Yes, it does.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Does this kilt make me look fat?

No, the kilt has nothing to do with that (or dress, don't blame the messenger).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Most people who I have seen speak of lying say it is lying only if the person is saying something that he or she knows isn't true.

And, I am tending to agree with that conclusion.

BUT

Saying something that isn't true, but not knowing it isn't, is perfect proof of the person's willingness to lie..... subconscious though it might be.

Let's say that every mind is actually just a part of one mind. Then, a person's willingness to lie supports the liars' lies.

If a person will speak what isn't true without knowing, why is lying knowingly bad? It isn't!

Its like saying "if the person doesnt know he will kill someone when knocking him on the head, its not killing unless he is aware of it."

Killing is killing; lying is lying

The defintion of lying doesnt depend on intent. You tell someone X when the truth its Y. The intent sounds like a moral issue not a definition one.

 

[savagewind]

Its like saying "if the person doesnt know he will kill someone when knocking him on the head, its not killing unless he is aware of it."

Killing is killing; lying is lying

The defintion of lying doesnt depend on intent. You tell someone X when the truth its Y. The intent sounds like a moral issue not a definition one.

I think we agree.

For instance: My intent was not to kill him. My intent was to push him off the bridge.