Life before birth

[Aupmanyav]

As soon as the child is born you have seen something that reminds you of this growing child later on.
But I don't know when that develops in the womb. I would like to hear some insights.

That is true. DNA plays a part in what we develop into.
Oh, don't worry, Google, Wikipedia and us are here to explain it. Science says it begins around fifth week.

"Your fetus will begin the process of developing a brain around week 5, but it isn't until week 6 or 7 when the neural tube closes and the brain separates into three parts, that the real fun begins."
https://www.google.com/search?q=whe...hUKEwjxu6zUvO_yAhUDK7kGHT4SBTIQ4dUDCAc&uact=5

 

[Aupmanyav]

What is "It" that shares these attributes (noun to the adjectives)?

For me 'physical energy'. Salix has different views.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I was thinking earlier if our parent aborted us early, "we" would have never existed. Which sounds common sense, of course, but from a, I guess, philosophical perspective I wonder if this where the case we would have another chance at existence from other parents. Kind of like being stuck in a maze with multiple exits. Some are fake exits while others are not.

In the scheme of the world/universe, it does not make even an iota of difference.Any thing that dies, disintegrates. The molecules get hitched to other living and non-living things. So, molecules of my body (or that of a fetus) after death will also do the same. Some of my molecules may go to hundreds of other human beings. If you want you can take that as reincarnation. After all I have 7,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (7 octillion) atoms in my body and 1.2x10 raised to power 27 molecules (99% of them are water molecules) in my body (You can query Google for it and get links for further research. It is all very well known.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Spoken like a true advaitist.See his label. The English transliteration is "Aham Brahmasmi" meaning "I am Brahman". All that exists is Brahman, there is no exception, there is no second. If you ask us 'Advaitists', you too are that.
Nature? Brahman is eternal, there is no birth or death for it, Brahman is not involved in the affairs of the world, Brahman is form-free which means it can exist in any form and it is changeless. It definitely is not a God. What we do not know is whether there is any difference in existence and non-existence for Brahman. IMHO. Salix, is that correct?

I agree with just about all of this, but am unclear what you mean in the last sentence. Do you mean “we” from the perspective of vyavaharika?

 

[firedragon]

Undoubtedly a fetus can hear inside the womb. Likely it can learn before being born.

Hmm. You're right. I am sure of it now that you mentioned it.

 

[Revoltingest]

This sounds like it's directed at people that believe in things like souls, but I'll offer my perspective just so it exists in the discussion.

I don't think fetuses have the properties necessary to be "us" in the first place, though they do have the potentiality to be an "us." I think personhood is something that develops with emergent properties like sense of self, sapience, sentience, etc.

It's like we share one brain!
(Does that creep you out?)

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah, that is right. This 'we' stands for people like us in Vyavaharika (Worldly Truth). There is no 'we' in Paramarthika (Absolute Truth).

 

[firedragon]

It definitely is not a God.

Why cant Brahman with the description you gave be a God or God?

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. without such we'd be just animals living by instinct. This is assuming that we can't be who we are without the mind which no longer exist once the brain dies.

Do you mean animals have no brain? Any living being without brain will not survive. What about autonomous actions of the brain, like controlling your heart, breathing, harmones, etc. Will a computer work without a CPU?

 

[Wildswanderer]

I was thinking earlier if our parent aborted us early, "we" would have never existed. Which sounds common sense, of course, but from a, I guess, philosophical perspective I wonder if this where the case we would have another chance at existence from other parents. Kind of like being stuck in a maze with multiple exits. Some are fake exits while others are not.

But we did exist for a time in the womb. I believe aborted babies souls will exist forever.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Do you mean animals have no brain? Any living being without brain will not survive. What about autonomous actions of the brain, like controlling your heart, breathing, harmones, etc. Will a computer work without a CPU?

Mind meaning thoughts, feelings, and range of experiences.
The brain controls the mind but I never heard of a study where animals make decisions that are not based on instinct.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why cant Brahman with the description you gave be a God or God?

Are you the same as your God? Salix is 100% Brahman. I am 100% Brahman. Meow Mix, Clara, Unveiled Artist and you too are 100% Brahman. A cockroach is 100% Brahman. A stone is 100% Brahman. Since no other thing exists in view of 'Advaita Hinduism'. The wise said:

"Eko sad, dwiteeyo nasti; nasti, nasti, na nasti kinchana" (What exists is one, there is no second; no, no, not in the least).

Brahman does not require any worship, Brahman does not make any rules, Brahman does not help people in their difficulties, Brahman does not judge actions of people after death, Brahman has no hell or heaven, Brahman does not send prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis, The evil and the good both are Brahman, Brahman does not even create any universe, Brahman does not create living or non-livng beings.
The concept of Brahman is totally an anti-thesis of a God. Two very different things. That is why Brahman cannot be equated to a God.

But we did exist for a time in the womb. I believe aborted babies souls will exist forever.

Yeah, most of the people believe in existence of God and soul, in heaven and hell, in judgment, etc., though there is no evidence for any.

 

[firedragon]

Are you the same as your God? Salix is 100% Brahman. I am 100% Brahman. Meow Mix, Clara, Unveiled Artist and you too are 100% Brahman. A cockroach is 100% Brahman. A stone is 100% Brahman. Since no other thing exists in view of 'Advaita Hinduism'. The wise said:

"Eko sad, dwiteeyo nasti; nasti, nasti, na nasti kinchana" (What exists is one, there is no second; no, no, not in the least).

Brahman does not require any worship, Brahman does not make any rules, Brahman does not help people in their difficulties, Brahman does not judge actions of people after death, Brahman has no hell or heaven, Brahman does not send prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis, The evil and the good both are Brahman, Brahman does not even create any universe, Brahman does not create living or non-livng beings.
The concept of Brahman is totally an anti-thesis of a God. Two very different things. That is why Brahman cannot be equated to a God.Yeah, most of the people believe in existence of God and soul, in heaven and hell, in judgment, etc., though there is no evidence for any.

But still, does that make Brahman "not God"? Or is it just not agreeing with your prototype of a God?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Mind meaning thoughts, feelings, and range of experiences.
The brain controls the mind but I never heard of a study where animals make decisions that are not based on instinct.

Humans also have instincts, like ducking from an on-coming stone. These are known as reflex actions.

"In biology, a reflex, or reflex action, is an involuntary, unplanned sequence or action and nearly instantaneous movement in response to a stimulus. A reflex is made possible by neural pathways called reflex arcs which can act on an impulse before that impulse reaches the brain. The reflex is then an automatic response to a stimulus that does not receive or need conscious thought."
Reflex - Wikipedia

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Humans also have instincts, like ducking from an on-coming stone. These are known as reflex actions.

"In biology, a reflex, or reflex action, is an involuntary, unplanned sequence or action and nearly instantaneous movement in response to a stimulus. A reflex is made possible by neural pathways called reflex arcs which can act on an impulse before that impulse reaches the brain. The reflex is then an automatic response to a stimulus that does not receive or need conscious thought."
Reflex - Wikipedia

We do. All of our decisions are based on instincts whether we know it or not. We still have thoughts and experiences that we don't know exist in animals. Many domestic pet owners believe they do, so who knows.

 

[Aupmanyav]

But still, does that make Brahman "not God"? Or is it just not agreeing with your prototype of a God?

You are welcome to your views in spite of my listing differences. Your view is your right. Not even all Hindus will agree to what I say. We had heated discussions on the subject in Hindu Forum before my opponent fell silent. Now they accept me as a unavoidable nuisance.

 

[Aupmanyav]

We do. All of our decisions are based on instincts whether we know it or not. We still have thoughts and experiences that we don't know exist in animals. Many domestic pet owners believe they do, so who knows.

We cannot put animals and humans in different boxes. We are a continuation of development of intelligence. Taxonomy explains it well:
Kingdom: Animalia, Phylum: Chordata, Class: Mammalia, Order: Primates, Suborder: Haplorhini, Infraorder: Simiiformes, Family: Hominidae, Subfamily: Homininae, Tribe: Hominini, Genus: Homo, Species: Homo sapien, Sub-Species: Homo sapien sapien

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We cannot put animals and humans in different boxes. We are a continuation of development of intelligence. Taxonomy explains it well:
Kingdom: Animalia, Phylum: Chordata, Class: Mammalia, Order: Primates, Suborder: Haplorhini, Infraorder: Simiiformes, Family: Hominidae, Subfamily: Homininae, Tribe: Hominini, Genus: Homo, Species: Homo sapien, Sub-Species: Homo sapien sapien

Do you believe animals have thoughts and reflect on its experiences?

 

[Katzpur]

Why bother coming to earth as humans with physical bodies?

To have experiences one can only have in mortality, to learn to have faith in God when outside His presence, and to learn to be more like Him following His Only Begotten Son's example of how we should treat our fellow human beings.

 

[Katzpur]

This is purely my personal opinion, because in this particular matter you spoke of, I have not read any studies. Pure assumption.

I think that babies are born some kind of sense. It is strange that they have a particular personality on the day they are born. Immediately you see something in them that differentiates them between one another. And when they grow up, kind of instinctively you feel "ah I remember" when you see some character traits. As soon as the child is born you have seen something that reminds you of this growing child later on.

But I dont know when that develops in the womb. I would like to hear some insights.

I just read the following in Wiki the other day, and I found it fascinating. Perhaps this does not tie in with your own personal beliefs, but since it pertained to Islam, I'll just share it to give you some food for thought:

"In Islam, all souls are believed to have been created in adult form (before earthly life) at the same time God created the father of mankind, Adam. The Quran recounts the story of when the descendants of Adam were brought forth before God to testify that God alone is the Lord of creation and therefore only he is worthy of worship so that on the Day of Judgement, people could not make the excuse that they only worshipped others because they were following the ways of their ancestors. Humans do not remember, as they are born with an undeveloped mind (leaving only an innate awareness that God exists and is one, known as the Fitra) and he decreed at which point each and every human would be born into the physical world."