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Life before birth

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I was thinking earlier if our parent aborted us early, "we" would have never existed. Which sounds common sense, of course, but from a, I guess, philosophical perspective I wonder if this where the case we would have another chance at existence from other parents. Kind of like being stuck in a maze with multiple exits. Some are fake exits while others are not.
 
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Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
This sounds like it's directed at people that believe in things like souls, but I'll offer my perspective just so it exists in the discussion.

I don't think fetuses have the properties necessary to be "us" in the first place, though they do have the potentiality to be an "us." I think personhood is something that develops with emergent properties like sense of self, sapience, sentience, etc.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
This sounds like it's directed at people that believe in things like souls, but I'll offer my perspective just so it exists in the discussion.

I don't think fetuses have the properties necessary to be "us" in the first place, though they do have the potentiality to be an "us." I think personhood is something that develops with emergent properties like sense of self, sapience, sentience, etc.

This would make me wonder, since these things are from the mind, if one was born with mental health condition where the sense of self and identity are near non-existent or haven't matured, without such we'd be just animals living by instinct. This is assuming that we can't be who we are without the mind which no longer exist once the brain dies.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I was thinking earlier if our parent aborted us early, "we" would have never existed. Which sounds common sense, of course, but from a, I guess, philosophical perspective I wonder if this where the case we would have another change of existence from other parents. Kind of like being stuck in a maze with multiple exits. Some are fake exits while others are not.
Personally, I strongly believe that we all existed prior to our birth here on earth, just not as physical beings with mortal bodies. I believe that the spirit that gives life to our body was created by God long before our physical body was conceived by our parents, and that we lived as God's spirit offspring with Him in Heaven prior to coming to earth.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
I was thinking earlier if our parent aborted us early, "we" would have never existed. Which sounds common sense, of course, but from a, I guess, philosophical perspective I wonder if this where the case we would have another change of existence from other parents. Kind of like being stuck in a maze with multiple exits. Some are fake exits while others are not.

Where would we be if people like Einstein had been aborted?

I don't agree with abortion in most cases because I see it as a life.

With that said.. If bird embryos can learn, I would think human embryos can too.

An international team of scientists led by Flinders University has found evidence of prenatal auditory learning in embryos of three vocal learning species (superb fairy-wren, red-winged fairy-wren and Darwin’s small ground finch) and two vocal non-learning species (little penguin and Japanese quail).

Avian Vocal Learning Begins Before Birth, Study Says | Biology | Sci-News.com
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Life reincarnated studies state humans remember living before if the same human DNA is re expressed.

Which is just a bio lived life human experience. Recorded voice image held in the state recorded.

Begins as a recording ends recorded. A state.

So we remember our first ever human lives as once a whole life.

O earth higher crystalline mass.
It's heavens a greater larger mass.

All life destroyed. First existence with God converted.

O earth mass God gone.
Earth heaven mass gone.
Life completely burnt to ashes.

Dusts gone changed into new dusts.

Memory.

Being with God first after living a living higher bio life first. Human.

Science by format the formula answer as science and maths removed form back to a completed converted zero. Nothing.

I theoried nothing first is a science answer I caused nothing at the end.

Earth contorted form by UFO attack cooled.

Giant spirits dinosaurs came out of the eternal body into earths ground heavens. The real giant bio form.

Lived and died.

Earth cooled again.

Life re emerged again as self owned spirits from the eternal. Not in creation.

Became new bio nature.

Nature survived as it's body is a higher carbon form.

Science never began new life.

Human parents did. Not scientists.

Had babies. Lived. We evolved. As humans.

Human men heard science. Knew God O body had destroyed all life on earth. Said machines never did it. God had the planet. Theoried Safe to do science machine again.

Life gets attacked mutated.

Memories

I saw my human mother's recorded life memory as she came out of the eternal.

Not gods body or the heavens.

Baby life was only ever adult human indoctrinated.

Why new advice means a new human life remembers old advice.

As life on earth human now only lives half of its pre owned bio life.

The other half science destroyed.

Why machines can transmit human images from machine to machine. As a heavenly state. I am not the state.

I know no machine is my human biological creator. What about you science theist Ai machine mind?

Asking the questions. Defining your thesis about consciousness.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I was thinking earlier if our parent aborted us early, "we" would have never existed. Which sounds common sense, of course, but from a, I guess, philosophical perspective I wonder if this where the case we would have another change of existence from other parents. Kind of like being stuck in a maze with multiple exits. Some are fake exits while others are not.

That's pretty close to my belief. Mine is that the soul takes physical bodies to gather experiences. If one proves not available then another will be.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Where would we be if people like Einstein had been aborted?

I don't agree with abortion in most cases because I see it as a life.

With that said.. If bird embryos can learn, I would think human embryos can too.

An international team of scientists led by Flinders University has found evidence of prenatal auditory learning in embryos of three vocal learning species (superb fairy-wren, red-winged fairy-wren and Darwin’s small ground finch) and two vocal non-learning species (little penguin and Japanese quail).

Avian Vocal Learning Begins Before Birth, Study Says | Biology | Sci-News.com

"They" say life or identity (what gains experiences and learning) isn't the function of the body and brain but the soul. If this isn't true (who knows...) our experiences such as listening are purely evolutionary.

Do you consider or define life by the body evolutionary or by the mind experiential and identity wise?

I don't know if Einstein would appear from another set of parents if aborted or if he/we are defined by the temporal life of the flesh a brain.

I like the idea of different points of existence while at the same time I don't believe in a disembodied soul to assume "it" can live body to body.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Personally, I strongly believe that we all existed prior to our birth here on earth, just not as physical beings with mortal bodies. I believe that the spirit that gives life to our body was created by God long before our physical body was conceived by our parents, and that we lived as God's spirit offspring with Him in Heaven prior to coming to earth.

Why bother coming to earth as humans with physical bodies?
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
That's pretty close to my belief. Mine is that the soul takes physical bodies to gather experiences. If one proves not available then another will be.
Science says the soul is science advice for a science thesis I can take it from a human and use it.

Science hence should ask why a human talks about a soul not a huge man that doesn't talk for itself?

Real reason a theist says phi is a soul yet looks at it on the ground. A soul who fell.

Says phi is a measure and maths is the measure. Looks at it claiming he was created by it.

So says now I know how God created you.

Yet the imprint is on the same ground we walk on. Disturbing living bodies growing.

So father said ask your brother if crops didn't exist would he see fallout effects?.

The answer is no it would not be seen.

Then he should quote fallout energy is less than a growing crop as it disturbed its natural form.

If it equalled life life would own no effects.

Energy released disturbs pressure as space owns pressure.

Father also said as man's thoughts are applied by his want and motivation not accepting just natural man. So he disassociated his being and says I am a God creating. As a human theist lying.

Theist says in the beginning for maths is Phi. Whilst living on earth looking at it as a pressure pattern.

Then he says no in the cosmic beginning.

Lying everyday as a belief I know everything.

Mass does not own any pattern. What a gas heavens is just mass.

Father also said when science theories science about a human he means all humans as the human. Hence human victims by his choosing does not keep him safe as he is first just a human also. As a science thesis.

Notice how real humans living standing on the ground can stand where a crop circle formed!

Men theorising science make science claims first. Science did not invent my human life by a human god thesis.

Humans pre taught human science theories before you know. Just as theists. And told theories differently than today but it was only just a theory.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Where would we be if people like Einstein had been aborted?
Someone else would likely have discovered and arrived at his theories - just as so many other things are not always the product of a single individual. One example being Darwin and Wallace. When sufficient information and knowledge gets around someone is often in the right place to make use of this, but sometimes it gets lost and reemerges decades later if ignored at the time. How would we know?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
As a believer in a soul and reincarnation we would be reborn again after the abortion.

My first thought is that the aborted fetus would not be a major influencer on the soul's overall experience base.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I think personhood is something that develops with emergent properties like sense of self, sapience, sentience, etc.
They are persons, but missing most emergent properties of 'personhood'. They do learn some 'personhood' in womb. "That is something convenient", "that is not something convenient". And when they come to it, they cry and wriggle to find the convenient situation.

"While it's true your baby can cry in the womb, it doesn't make a sound, and it's not something to worry about. The baby's practice cries include imitating the breathing pattern, facial expression, and mouth movements of a baby crying outside of the womb. You shouldn't worry that your baby is in pain."
(Aup adds: they can deal with it)
Does fetus weep in the womb - Google Search
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
They are persons, but missing most emergent properties of 'personhood'. They do learn some 'personhood' in womb. "That is something convenient", "that is not something convenient". And when they come to it, they cry and wriggle to find the convenient situation.

"While it's true your baby can cry in the womb, it doesn't make a sound, and it's not something to worry about. The baby's practice cries include imitating the breathing pattern, facial expression, and mouth movements of a baby crying outside of the womb. You shouldn't worry that your baby is in pain."
(Aup adds: they can deal with it)
Does fetus weep in the womb - Google Search

The 2015 study cited is third trimester, well after when abortion procedures would be performed though.

Edit: Should add that third trimester is 27+ weeks, abortions are banned nearly everywhere at ~24 weeks except in the case of emergencies for the life of the mother.
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
Someone else would likely have discovered and arrived at his theories - just as so many other things are not always the product of a single individual. One example being Darwin and Wallace. When sufficient information and knowledge gets around someone is often in the right place to make use of this, but sometimes it gets lost and reemerges decades later if ignored at the time. How would we know?
The revealing of science yes, but not presumably aesthetics. No Kandinsky, no Kandinsky art.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
The revealing of science yes, but not presumably aesthetics. No Kandinsky, no Kandinsky art.
Not sure as to even that though, given that ideas as to what one does in life often comes from others or from history itself - but perhaps just in a different form - and we will have missed any individual's output, just as we might have for all those who might have filled their places if they hadn't have existed. How can we assess the value or output of those whose lives were cut short for example?
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
The 2015 study cited is third trimester, well after when abortion procedures would be performed though.

Edit: Should add that third trimester is 27+ weeks, abortions are banned nearly everywhere at ~24 weeks except in the case of emergencies for the life of the mother.
Those few weeks are still a worry for me. It still comes across as the ending of a viable life. :oops:
 
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