Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Thats what we disagree on. A christian does not need to own a bible to know he is saved. Without the Bible we wouldnt "know" about salvation. Salvation existed long before the bible was written.
My point: Salvation existed before the bible was written. Jesus existed before the Bible. A Christians salvation is through Christ. That is what the Bibke is "about"; it is not Christ Himself.
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The sacraments are based on scripture. They are not the Bible...the sacraments are "in" the Bible...whej i was baptised i wasnt baptised in the bible i was baptised in the spirit.
The source is the Father. The salvation is Through Christ. The relationship between believer and Christ is married by the Holy Spirit. Your guidence is by the The Holy Spirit.
Of course as you said you know the differnence if holy spirit is talking by the bible "and" it is not the source if your salvation...Christ is.
I dont understand how you dont get that.
My point: Salvation existed before the bible was written. Jesus existed before the Bible. A Christians salvation is through Christ. That is what the Bibke is "about"; it is not Christ Himself.
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The sacraments are based on scripture. They are not the Bible...the sacraments are "in" the Bible...whej i was baptised i wasnt baptised in the bible i was baptised in the spirit.
The source is the Father. The salvation is Through Christ. The relationship between believer and Christ is married by the Holy Spirit. Your guidence is by the The Holy Spirit.
Of course as you said you know the differnence if holy spirit is talking by the bible "and" it is not the source if your salvation...Christ is.
I dont understand how you dont get that.
Jeremiah 1:1 The words of Jeremiah*+the son of Hil·ki′ah,* one ofthe priests that were in An′a·thoth+ in the land of Benjamin;+2 to whom the word of Jehovah occurred in the days of Jo·si′ah +the son of A′mon,+the king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reigning.+
Ezekiel 1:1 Now it came about in the thirtieth year, in the fourth [month], on the fifth [day] of the month, while I was in the midst of the exiled+ people by the river Che′bar,+ that the heavens were opened+ and I began to see visions of God.*+2 On the fifth [day] of the month, that is, [in] the fifth year of the exile of King Je·hoi′a·chin,*+3 the word of Jehovah occurred+ specifically to Ezekiel+
Isaiah 1:10 Hear the word of Jehovah,+YOU dictators+of Sod′om.+ Give ear to the law of our God, YOU people of Go·mor′rah.
Amos 3:1
3 “Hear this word that Jehovah has spoken concerning YOU,+ O sons of Israel, concerning the whole family that I brought up out of the land of Egypt,+ saying,
Zechariah 1:1 In the eighth month in the second year of Da·ri′us,+ the word of Jehovah came to the prophet Zech·a·ri′ah*+ son of Ber·e·chi′ah son of Id′do, saying: 2 “Jehovah grew greatly indignant at your fathers.
2 Samuel (40 occurrences)
4 On that very night, the word of Jehovah came to Nathan, saying: 5 “Go and say to my servant David, ‘This is what Jehovah says: “Should you build me a house to dwell in?+
Exodus 4:22 You must say to Phar′aoh, ‘This is what Jehovah says: “Israel is my son, my firstborn.
Haggai 1:2 “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘These people say, “The time has not yet come for the house* of Jehovah to be built.”’”*+
Every book of the bible is the Word of Jehovah. And if Jesus words are correct (No one can come to Jesus unless he has been drawn by the Father) how can you really be sure that you know Jesus if you dont even know who's Word the bible really is???
i agree with you. But who actually gives out the holy spirit?
According to Jesus, it is Jehovah or the Father who gives holy spirit:
John 14:26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.
If your belief is that Jesus sends the holy spirit, where did that idea originate from?
And what if what you think you know about Christ is the opposite of what the scriptures actually say? Let me give you an example....
Eve was told that she would not die if she ate from the tree. But Gods word stated "in the day you eat from it you will surely die" .
So Gods Word was true and correct. Eve did die. But she was told that she would not die. Where did the false information come from??? Wasnt it Satan the devil? Are you sure that the information you've been has not come from such a source? Your views do seem to contradict Gods Word afterall.
This is what the Apostle Paul said to Timothy as recorded in the bible: 2Timothy 3: 14 You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe,+ knowing from whom you learned them 15 and that from infancy+ you have known the holy writings,+ which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus
According to this, it is the 'holy writings' which makes us 'wise for salvation' because they can instill faith in a believer....and there salvation really comes from 'faith'
This goes back to what I originally asked you about.... how do you even know what the sacraments are and what they mean? Isnt it the bible, the holy writings which lay them out and explain them???
Yes. The holy writings are what gave us faith in Christ because they record his life and teachings. Those holy writings are the source of our knowledge.
I would actually take it a step further and say that our relationship with Christ depends on our relationship with Jehovah.
John 6;65 He went on to say: “This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”"
It seems fairly reasonable to conclude here that we must first know the Father.
I certainly agree though that the bible should not become an idol to be worshiped. But nor should we be worshiping Jesus either.