John 5:36-40 (Sola Scriptura)

[sincerly]

sincerly said: ↑
sincerly said: ↑
Do you think that GOD/The Holy Spirit is not able to protect that which is written for the learning and admonition of HIS Believing people?

I agree no lie can be allowed in Truth. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No lie is in Him. I am sure Jesus is The Son of God. I know for a fact scripture is NOT the son of God.

Right! The Book/written scriptures are not the flesh and blood Jesus Christ. However, As Jesus stated,(Luke24:17, 44-48) those scriptures are "Concerning Jesus" and what HE was to accomplish for mankind's salvation.(Concerning ME.)

If scripture is all a person needs for learning and admonition why did Jesus promise to send a helper?

The Holy Spirit(Another comforter) is/was a witness of Jesus and a companion to reveal the truths found in those "Truths of the Scriptures" as Jesus explained--Recorded to guide one in the paths of Righteousness and a right relationship to GOD and fellow Beings.

It appears to me no, God is not in charge. I think I have heard a thousand times or more that God should not let error in.I hope so.
That is what I am arguing. YOU say God's way must be as YOU think. Cute! Right! I believe that. You don't though imho.

SW, This world's kingdoms have not yet become the Kingdom's of GOD. Error is what the Adversary(Satan) has been sowing to keep disobedient mankind in line with. Just as he beguiled Eve into thinking.
But GOD is still in charge of allowing disobedient mankind to present evil to it's fullness; Thereby, all will see that HE is a Just and Merciful GOD and the adversary has been wrong from the beginning.

Jesus, the man, is the truth. Are there two truths according to you? One is the living Son of God and the other one is the written word. They are not the same. I am sure of it.
OK. I am asking for proof other than your opinion.

Isa.8:20 is written concerning law and testimony of the prophets to the people. When one teaches/speaks contrary to these two witnesses then it is because there is no light/truth in those who do so.

1Cor.10:6, 11; Rom.15:4 assure one that all things written "aforetime" is for our learning./hope.

 

[sincerly]

Jesus the man is the way, the truth and the life according to my opinion.

According to your opinion scripture is the truth. (This is what I hear from many different people and religions) Is it also the way and the life, according to you and you and you who says it is perfect?

My question is if scripture really is all true like you say, is it also the way and the life?

Read Ezek.18; Lev.4:26, 35; Heb.9:26; 10:26. Jesus is still the true sacrifice and is seen in the Scriptures as such. It is by Faith that one takes the fact of the sacrifice as real. and that today is the symbolic Lord's supper.

 

[savagewind]

I do not doubt any of that. But you have not provide proof. Have you?

All post #41 can be true and also it can be true error crept in. I am not even saying it was on purpose. YOU say God purposely has kept scripture pure and true. What is your evidence?

 

[savagewind]

Read Ezek.18; Lev.4:26, 35; Heb.9:26; 10:26. Jesus is still the true sacrifice and is seen in the Scriptures as such. It is by Faith that one takes the fact of the sacrifice as real. and that today is the symbolic Lord's supper.

Shall I work for it or do you post the scriptures please?

 

[savagewind]

Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
He shall burn all the fat on the altar as he burned the fat of the fellowship offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for the leader's sin, and he will be forgiven.

*It is unbelievable to me that people make scripture equal to God.

 

[sincerly]

Thats a yes?
My point/question is: Do you receive (not learn about) the Holy Spirit from scriptures (the bible) or Christ (the Word)?

(They are not the same. Christ existed before scriptures.)

John 14:26; 15:26, "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

One reads about the Father and the SON(JESUS) and the HOLY Spirit all in the Scriptures.

The Holy Spirit existed before the Scriptures as well.

 

[savagewind]

Other than the personal opinion God would not allow such a thing to happen, what have you?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

John 14:26; 15:26, "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

One reads about the Father and the SON(JESUS) and the HOLY Spirit all in the Scriptures.

The Holy Spirit existed before the Scriptures as well.

I understand that. Was confused why or how pegg dont understand

 

[sincerly]

sincerly said: ↑
Read Ezek.18; Lev.4:26, 35; Heb.9:26; 10:26. Jesus is still the true sacrifice and is seen in the Scriptures as such. It is by Faith that one takes the fact of the sacrifice as real. and that today is the symbolic Lord's supper.

Shall I work for it or do you post the scriptures please?

When one does the looking up, one comprehends better. However, I do not know how the NWT renders those verses.
Ezek.18 is the whole 32 verses, but it is equating living with Repenting and Believing GOD. "For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."

sincerly said: ↑ Read Ezek.18; Lev.4:26, 35; Heb.9:26; 10:26. Jesus is still the true sacrifice and is seen in the Scriptures as such. It is by Faith that one takes the fact of the sacrifice as real. and that today is the symbolic Lord's supper.

Lev.4:26, 35., "And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him..."
"And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him."

Heb.9:26; 10:26, "For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

Heb. 10:26, "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"...

SW, when GOD gave the sacrificial laws are they not what HE HAS EXPRESSED/Pronounced as truth? Isn't GOD Truth?, Also?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes, that right. Those who wrote the bible had 'direct' experience with God. Thats why we can trust what they have written and why we should base our beliefs about God on those writings. And

I had to add this to my other recent replies to you....a Christian bases his/her belief on Christ and the only way they have that belief is by The Holy Spirit not the words (notice I didnt say Word) in the Bible.

You have a indirect experience from Christ by reading the Bible.

You have a--direct and personal--experience from Christ by the Holy Spirit who as you have mentioned existed before scriptures existed.

 

[sincerly]

Other than the personal opinion God would not allow such a thing to happen, what have you?

Other than the personal opinion God would not allow such a thing to happen, what have you?

SW, IYHO, does GOD LIE? It is HIS inspired words to the prophets which makes up the written word/Scriptures.(A long with the NT writers.)
Who are you doubting?

SW, remembering some of past posts. It appears that you are still dealing with the governing body and the falseness they inserted into beliefs..

 

[savagewind]

SW, IYHO, does GOD LIE? It is HIS inspired words to the prophets which makes up the written word/Scriptures.(A long with the NT writers.)
Who are you doubting?

I am doubting choice and human understanding. I do not doubt God. You do.

SW, remembering some of past posts. It appears that you are still dealing with the governing body and the falseness they inserted into beliefs..

No. it's not about that.

 

[Pegg]

I had to add this to my other recent replies to you....a Christian bases his/her belief on Christ and the only way they have that belief is by The Holy Spirit not the words (notice I didnt say Word) in the Bible.

You have a indirect experience from Christ by reading the Bible.

You have a--direct and personal--experience from Christ by the Holy Spirit who as you have mentioned existed before scriptures existed.

Thats what i used to think too until someone showed me what Jesus said at

John 6:44 No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him,+ and I will resurrect him on the last day.+45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by Jehovah.’*+ Everyone who has listened to the Father and has learned comes to me.

I discovered Christ though the Father. And that is exactly how Christ himself said he would be found.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thats what i used to think too until someone showed me what Jesus said at

John 6:44 No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him,+ and I will resurrect him on the last day.+45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by Jehovah.’*+ Everyone who has listened to the Father and has learned comes to me.

I discovered Christ though the Father. And that is exactly how Christ himself said he would be found.

Shouldnt it be the other way around? Abraham and moses never saw Gods face yet they believed without stone or paper.

The apostles believed because they were with Christ and heared His words firsthand. Christ repeatedly told them and the jews to dismiss the scrptures (the law of moses) in favor for the His Fathers two new laws through Him.

When Jesus was baptised the "dove" or Holy spirit came from Him not the OT Law, or the gospels since they were not yet written.

Christ spoke oraly to His disiples just as He speaks orally into the Christians heart.

What you are saying is that no one can be saved without a bible.

What I am saying...according to the Bible, no one can be saved without Christ.

Christ is not the Bible. He is the Word.

 

[Pegg]

I would like to show you what the scriptures say:

Shouldnt it be the other way around?

Not according to Jesus., This is why faith in the scriptures is important. Jesus is reported to have said that we must know the Father first...and then we are drawn to Christ. You are saying the opposite of what we know Jesus to have said.

Either trust what you say is true, or we trust the the Apostle John recorded as true.

What makes your opinion more trustworthy then the Apostle John?

Abraham and moses never saw Gods face yet they believed without stone or paper.

Moses and Abraham both knew the Messiah because they first knew the Father. It was their faith in the Father Jehovah that gave them faith that the Messiah would come in the future. So it is possible to know Jesus through the Father and that is also what Jesus himself said:

John 5:37 And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me.+ You have neither heard his voice at any time nor seen his form,+ ... 46 In fact, if you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.+ 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe what I say?”

The apostles believed because they were with Christ and heared His words firsthand. Christ repeatedly told them and the jews to dismiss the scrptures (the law of moses) in favor for the His Fathers two new laws through Him.

Matt 5:17 “Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.+18 Truly I say to you that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one stroke of a letter to pass away fromtheLaw until all things take place.+19 Whoever, therefore, breaks one of these least commandments and teaches others todo so will be called least in relation tothe Kingdom of the heavens. But whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in relation tothe Kingdom of the heavens.

When Jesus was baptised the "dove" or Holy spirit came from Him not the OT Law, or the gospels since they were not yet written.

Christ spoke oraly to His disiples just as He speaks orally into the Christians heart.

What you are saying is that no one can be saved without a bible.

What I am saying...according to the Bible, no one can be saved without Christ.

Christ is not the Bible. He is the Word.

The bible is Gods Word. Jesus certainly viewed the scriptures as Gods Word for he repeatedly quoted from them to teach his disciples spriitual truths. ie,

Matt 21:42 Jesus said to them: “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone that the builders rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone.*+ This has come from Jehovah,* and it is marvelous in our eyes’?+
He was quoting from

Isaiah 28:16 Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says:
“Here I am laying as a foundation in Zion a tested stone,+ The precious cornerstone+ of a sure foundation.+
No one exercising faith will panic
​

He also confirmed that what is written in the holy scriptures is about him;
John 5:39 “You are searching the Scriptures+ because you think that you will have everlasting life by means of them; and these are the very ones* that bear witness about me.

So it seems pretty clear that the scriptures are an important tool in getting to know Christ.... He even said this;
John 5:47 But if you do not believe his writings (the writings of Moses and the law), how will you believe what I say?”

To know Christ, we must know the scriptures.

 

[savagewind]

So it seems pretty clear that the scriptures are an important tool in getting to know Christ.... He even said this;
John 5:47 But if you do not believe his writings (the writings of Moses and the law), how will you believe what I say?”

To know Christ, we must know the scriptures.

The scriptures are good for identifying all the false christs. But that is not as important as knowing God's son, who is known by heart.
If John 5:47 said 'if you do not believe Moses' writings how will you believe who I am' then you might be right. But he didn't.

What Jesus says does not make us know him. What Jesus says make us love him.

 

[Windwalker]

So many arguments from one's interpretations of scriptures! What's lacking is any personal insights from personal experience. So, I think the conclusion is this, that what "sola scriptura" means to those who have no personal experience of Spirit is an argument from scripture in lieu of any actual personal knowledge of Christ. What ensues instead is to argue from scripture to justify arguing from scripture.

This all amounts to nothing but a string of words, empty and devoid of Spirit. How could it be elsewise? The hypocrites Jesus rebuked quoted scripture, but they have no understanding of it because the had no spiritual illumination. Saying one has the NT to reveal scripture is as meaningless today as it was when the Pharisees claimed to have Moses' words. It's still the unenlightened mind reading words on a page. Unless the mind is awakened, what it reads is unseen by the mind.

It's really that simple. Without an actual spiritual awakening, one cannot claim to know what scripture is saying. So, if I ask to please share what your knowledge of God is through personal experience, using your own words, sharing your own thoughts through that place of Knowledge of Spirit, and I hear silence in response, I think that answers everything. All the rest is merely theological quibbling devoid of any actual meaning; a distraction, a red herring to draw away from looking at the fact there is no actual spiritual life to what is claimed as truth, and therefore no Truth within it.

 

[savagewind]

So many arguments from one's interpretations of scriptures! What's lacking is any personal insights from personal experience. So, I think the conclusion is this, that what "sola scriptura" means to those who have no personal experience of Spirit is an argument from scripture in lieu of any actual personal knowledge of Christ. What ensues instead is to argue from scripture to justify arguing from scripture.

This all amounts to nothing but a string of words, empty and devoid of Spirit. How could it be elsewise? The hypocrites Jesus rebuked quoted scripture, but they have no understanding of it because the had no spiritual illumination. Saying one has the NT to reveal scripture is as meaningless today as it was when the Pharisees claimed to have Moses' words. It's still the unenlightened mind reading words on a page. Unless the mind is awakened, what it reads is unseen by the mind.

It's really that simple. Without an actual spiritual awakening, one cannot claim to know what scripture is saying. So, if I ask to please share what your knowledge of God is through personal experience, using your own words, sharing your own thoughts through that place of Knowledge of Spirit, and I hear silence in response, I think that answers everything. All the rest is merely theological quibbling devoid of any actual meaning; a distraction, a red herring to draw away from looking at the fact there is no actual spiritual life to what is claimed as truth, and therefore no Truth within it.

Surely scripture is good for something or is your opinion of the superior kind that it is good for nothing?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I understand that thank you.my earlier question...is it not the Holy spirit that comes into your heart?

Should we "replace" Jesus/HS with the bible..as if the bible was the dove not the Holy spirit?

Your saving we are saved by the reading the Bible

I am saying when you read the bible you learn about salvation

But Christ saves.

The bible says that repeatedly.

How is the Bible Christ? It is Christ's Word. Understand?

I can quote thr scriptures that says Christ is a Christian's salvation not the Bible. I can also quote that faith in Christ is necesssary fir salvation. Im on my phone till the 11th; so i cant do that now. The whole gospels shares that though.

The Bible did not die on the Cross..Christ did.

to know Christ you must know the scriptures

To know Christ you must havee the Holy Spirit.

You have to be born again. The bible doesnt save you/make you birn again. Christ does.

Understand?

Not according to Jesus., This is why faith in the scriptures is important.

Faith in Christ in important

Either trust what you say is true, or we trust the the Apostle John recorded as true.

What makes your opinion more trustworthy then the Apostle John?

So it seems pretty clear that the scriptures are an important tool in getting to know Christ.... He even said this;
John 5:47 But if you do not believe his writings (the writings of Moses and the law), how will you believe what I say?”

To know Christ, we must know the scriptures.

To "know" Christ is to know scriptures. To be born again it is only through Christ.

You are not saved by knowing Christ. You are saved by taking "Him" not the Bible into your heart and be born-again.
--
1. Christ saves
2. To be born again faith in Christ is needed
3. To "know" Christ one needs scripture
4. To know Him in your heart (rather than brain) you must uave the holy spirit.
5. Christ is the Word the message from His Father about a Christians salvation "through His Son"

To replace Christ with scriptures is making the bible an idol. You are not saved by an idol but by your faith in Christ.

I do not need to quote that is what the whole bible is about.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's really that simple. Without an actual spiritual awakening, one cannot claim to know what scripture is saying. So, if I ask to please share what your knowledge of God is

I gotta disagree. Anyone can see the bible from a spiritual light. Its not a feign spiritual language only Christians can interpret. If Jesus wanted all to be saved Hed make the book fir all to understand...many have turned away from Christ only by reading it without outside critics. Not everyone wants to be with Christ that doesnt mean they dont know Him.