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Featured Jehovah's Witnesses' problems with the Catholic Church

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Shiranui117, Aug 10, 2017.

  1. Olinda

    Olinda Member

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    There were Catholic, Protestant and JW martyrs, and that is tragic. There were also religious leaders who made mistakes and worsened the situation for their fellow believers. JW leadership was no exception.

    A letter to the German Chancellor from JW leadership in Brooklyn included the phrase
    "that the Bible Researchers of Germany are fighting for the very same high ethical goals and ideals which also the national government of the German Reich proclaimed "

    Subsequently
    "Rutherford and Knorr organized a public convention in Berlin on 25th June, 1933 to release a "Declaration of Facts," being pronouncing at the German convention, and distributed in letter format. This outlined Watchtower's support of the German governments stance against Jews.

    The convention hall was decked with swastikas and the program was opened with Song 64, a song from the Bible Student's songbook that had the some melody by Hayden as the German national anthem. Konrad Franke, Germany's Bethel branch overseer later stated his disturbance at seeing the scene for the convention and Rutherford's declaration."

    As efforts at appeasement had no positive effect, Rutherford later threatened Hitler with punishment if the ban against Jws was not lifted, and published aggressive cartoons and condemnations against the regime.
    "This later aggression of Rutherford towards Hitler no doubt exacerbated the strong stance Hitler took against Jehovah's Witnesses, and they would have suffered less had Rutherford acted more reasonably and with concern for the safety of German followers."
    All quotes and more supporting material, including full transcripts are from here
     
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  2. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I'm not going to waste any more time on the massive bigotry and disingenuousness with the above. On top of that, you ignored what I said about me not defending the atrocities that were committed within the ranks of the CC and just went into another series of myopic rants.

    My final response to you on this thread is that you cannot legitimately cite the moral atrocities that some in the CC have done by having your own multiple sessions of moral repugnance being displayed here. You obviously are a very hate-filled person who can "see the speck in your brother's eye but not notice the log that is in your pwn eye"-- Matthew 7[3].

    I obviously know a great many Catholics, and if their behavior matched yours I would be looking for another church to attend. Fortunately, I don't see in them the hatred and twisting of the truth that I see all too often in your posts.
     
  3. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Not even Jesus Christ?
     
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  4. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    In those early days, this discourse and booklet gave hope of the Bible's promise of everlasting life in paradise. It's message inspired many to learn the Bible's truth for themselves, having only Christendom's teaching of everyone going to either heaven or hell. :( The timing may have been a little off but the message was true, nonetheless. The apostles got the timing wrong too, expecting Jesus to set up his Kingdom in the first century (Acts 6:4) ....time clarifies all things.

    I remember when I first heard that message.....a great feeling of relief came over me because I had no desire to go to heaven and I never knew why. It was never God's intention for humans to go to heaven....or hell. He designed us to live a mortal life here on this earth...forever.

    We can still say that with confidence, because it still applies today. :) "Millions Now Living Will Never Die".

    An unnumbered "great crowd" will come through the end times to live that life on earth....millions of them.
     
  5. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Oh dear metis. :facepalm: I have no "hate" for the people who attend the Catholic Church. I have a desire to tell them the truth. They have been misled for centuries by the "weeds" that Jesus foretold would come. It might not be what they want to hear, but then the majority of the Jews never received what Jesus or the apostles said with any joy either. Their leaders made sure of that. When Jesus was before Pilate, they were so sure that they were right about him, that they cursed themselves and their children with his blood. (Matthew 27:24-25) Will history repeat?

    It is love of God and neighbor that kept the first Christians preaching to their fellow Jews......the same love keeps us going to the doors of people of all faiths, including Catholics. Again and again we try to deliver a warning that we believe will save their lives from the coming wrath of God, expressed towards all parts of the devil's system of things. If we felt no compassion for the people who are stuck in false religion of any description, then we would not be using our time and resources to reach them...and rescue them.

    Remember the words of Jesus...."just like the days of Noah".....no one will be able to say they did not receive a warning about what God intends to do. It wasn't Noah who closed the door of the ark. It won't be us who tell them "time's up" :( .....and we have no idea how much time is actually left....we just see all the features the sign that Jesus gave, and know it is near. There will be no warning......the Bible says Jesus will come "like a thief in the night" to judge the world.

    I know a lot of Catholics too.....mainly a lot of former Catholics who can't believe that they were so misled.
    Was it hatred and a twisting of the truth that motivated the first century Christians to expose the twisted beliefs of the Jewish leaders back then? People deserve the truth. It isn't loving to leave them in the dark. Lives are at stake and the truth is available to all....but not if we behave like ostriches.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    No. We do not accept Jesus as part of a triune godhead. Jesus is the created "son of God". The servant of his God and Father.
     
  7. Olinda

    Olinda Member

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    Are you saying that even if it was wrong, it was good? After all, the timing WAS the message!

    Also, my point was to refute your statement that in respect of the time of the "end", JW messages use "could", not "is". Rutherford clearly was more definite than that.;)

    I'm sincerely happy that you have a religion that gives you this relief. It bothers me more that if others are happy in a different belief - but still one that "loves God and your neighbour as yourself" - your religion seems to drive you to shake their belief and happiness.

    Wouldn't that be defining that 'the end' will come in this generation, or have I misunderstood?
     
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  8. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I will say what I always to to you Olinda....believe whatever you wish. :) You will anyway.
     
  9. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    Bite your tongue. :mad:

    I love apple pies...especially when done right. :yum:
     
  10. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    We believe in the inspiration of the Bible, the death and resurrection of Christ for the remission of sins, that we cannot be saved without God, that we are to evangelize the world, that we are to love God and neighbor, that God will judge the living and the dead. I trust you guys believe all these as well?

    But tell me if the Jehovah's Witnesses can sign on at least to the first part of the Nicene Creed:
    "I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth, and of all things visible and invisible."
     
  11. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Well, I guess we do, but not in the same way as the RCC does...or the rest of Christendom for that matter.

    Your Bible includes books that ours does not. We reject the inspiration of those books.
    We also reject Catholic interpretation of the rest.

    The death and resurrection of Jesus is not the death of one part of God, which another part of God resurrected.

    We cannot be saved without God? Indeed, but our God is not your God....there is no resemblance actually.

    Love of God and neighbor does not allow a Christian to take up arms and kill someone they identify as an enemy. In the two world wars of last century, how often was Catholic killing Catholic in direct violation of Christ's command to love your brothers and even your enemy. Can your Christian brother ever be your enemy? (1 John 4:20) Can you love anyone with a weapon of war? We are not supposed to be part of that world. (John 15:17-19) Yet the clergy supports the wars of the nations and always has. (Isaiah 1:15)

    Evangelizing the world? When was the last time a Catholic person called at anyone's door the way the first century Christians did in search of lost souls? (Matthew 10:11-15; Acts 20:20) It is not only an obligation but a responsibility with serious consequences for negligence. (Ezekiel 3:17-21)

    It would be nice I suppose, if the Catholic Church actually stuck to that.....instead of creating a trinity of gods in one head.

    Where will I find such a deity in scripture?
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I can only find trinities in pagan religions....

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Its not looking good so far.
     
  12. Olinda

    Olinda Member

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    Certainly, but we are not trying to influence each other here, are we?
    I found it important to balance the perspective a bit.
    Never mind, Deeje, spring is on the way! :)
     
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