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Is it wrong to advocate homosexuality as a sin?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Jeremiah, Jun 28, 2009.

  1. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Why not?
     
  2. averageJOE

    averageJOE zombie

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    I belive sins to be nothing but rules that man invented in a futlie attempt to act like they know what their God is thinking.

    There is talk about lust and love here. Though they are independent of each other I also believe they can be one in the same. Lust is a natural human desire that we all feel. There is nothing wrong with acting out on our lustful desires, so long as you do not hurt anyone. When I was young and in my 20's I was lusting over almost every woman that was in front of me. Now that I am in my 30's and married I give my entire life and heart to my wife. I love her. But I still lust over her! There are days I come home from 2 weeks away in the military and when I see her my mind is in dirty places. And we act out on our lust for each other!

    I think its wrong for someone to tell another who they can and cannot love. It's wrong to tell someone HOW they should love each other. I believe its wrong to tell two people who love each other what they can and cannot do in the privacy of their bedroom.
     
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  3. Oberon

    Oberon Well-Known Member

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    First, frubals for the cultural reference.

    Second, I didn't interpret your post as making such a claim, but this whole conversation for some time has taken the track of one code of morals (recently muslim) over anothers and the reasons for them and so on. Every time there is a discussion between people coming from various religious backgrounds or choosing different codes, it often seems to be missed that morality is a socio-cultural construction which, if it exists in any objective sense, is not only unprovable, you can't even have evidence that any particular action is immoral or moral without taking for granted a some sort of basis for your moral code.

    In other words, a thread addressed to people whose moral systems differ in this respect which is asking whether it is wrong to advocate homosexuality as a sin is doomed to failure because of the basis for moral codes of people like Fatihah. I may have my own code, I may think it is actually objectively right, but I possess no test to evaluate its superiority over Fatihah's. In other words, unless you are dealing with a group of people who take for granted a certain moral precept (from which other morals may be extrapolated) a discussion such as this is doomed.
     
  4. Mr Cheese

    Mr Cheese Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but I am willing to bet Fatihah is a virgin.
    Thus his discussion of sex, lust, love, homosexuality
    is really like a man discussing menstruation cramps.

    He can read about the cramps, have lots of wonderful opnions
    But I guess until someone hits him in the stomach with a bowling ball and he begins bleeding from his groin.... he's not really ever going to understand.

    Just a thought.
     
  5. Francis

    Francis UBER-Christian

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    Ouch... that sounds unpleasant... anyways, you do make a point, i suppose. Fatihah, sexuality is part of human nature too. However, you think of it the wrong way. Sexuality isn't being attracted to the opposite sex: It's where you are between 100% homo-sexual and 100% hetero-sexual. Very few people are actually 100% straight. Just as very few people happen to be 100% gay. Most probably hover around the 85-95% straight area, but that doesn't mean that there aren't people everywhere else. Peace!
     
  6. Magic Man

    Magic Man Reaper of Conversation

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    There's the statement. Where's the proof?
     
  7. Magic Man

    Magic Man Reaper of Conversation

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    Our disagreement over the objectivity aside, the reason these discussions get this way is because people like Fatihah and Carico make all kinds of false claims about homosexuality. As I've said to them a couple times in the last few pages, if they were to just say "Homosexuality is wrong because Allah commands it", that would be one thing. The problem is when they start rationalizing it with things like "homosexuality is all about lust" and "think of the negative effects on the children of gay marriages" and silliness like that. That's when these arguments get really heated, because no matter what you believe is right or wrong, homosexuality is not about lust any more than heterosexuality is and there are no negative effects on children (including becoming gay).
     
  8. Oberon

    Oberon Well-Known Member

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    Actually, there are often negative effects on children of gay couples, but that is because of the prejudice of the homophobic crowd, nothing to do with the gay couples themselves.
     
  9. Magic Man

    Magic Man Reaper of Conversation

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    Well, yes, but that's no different from any other minority group.
     
  10. Storm

    Storm ThrUU the Looking Glass

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    [​IMG]
     
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  11. monta

    monta .

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    There is only one word that has ever scared me and it is not for the faint hearted so don't look if you are easily upset

    BOO!
     
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  12. Autodidact

    Autodidact Intentionally Blank

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    then why did you say it doesn't? I thought I could rely on you, a Muslim, to at least tell me what the qu'ran says. Please cite the verse where the qu'ran mentions lesbianism, and be more careful next time. Thanks.
    I don't.
     
  13. Autodidact

    Autodidact Intentionally Blank

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    So if I follow your argument, it's:

    lesbianism is immoral because it's lust.
    Lesbianism is lust because it's unnatural.
    Lesbianism is unnatural because because it's lust.

    Is that right?

    Also, why is something unnatural lust?

    Also, I remember that your argument depends on asserting that homosexuality is not found in nature, although hundreds of scientists have observed it in most mammals that have been observed. So, for you to be correct, you again need for scientists to be liars, and their lies undetected by peer review.
     
  14. Autodidact

    Autodidact Intentionally Blank

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    Slanderer. Please produce a single post of me lying, or withdraw this slur on my integrity. I do not take such an accusation lightly.
     
  15. Autodidact

    Autodidact Intentionally Blank

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    Oh, weird religion. That must be why you feel free to do it so much. In my moral system, lying is immoral.
     
  16. Autodidact

    Autodidact Intentionally Blank

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    Except that He doesn't.
     
  17. Magic Man

    Magic Man Reaper of Conversation

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    I'm with you, but I'm just saying that "my religion says it's wrong" is much different than "it's only about lust" and "it's unnatural".
     
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  18. keithnurse

    keithnurse Active Member

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    Even if homosexuality is unnatural, and I'm not saying it is, that would not make it wrong. We do lots of things that are unnatural that no one calls wrong, for example: dying our hair,wearing makeup, most of modern medicine is unnatural such as surgery, anesthesia, and what about rollerskating, space travel, SCUBA diving, etc etc. Strictly speaking, wearing clothes is unnatural. If it was natural we would be born with clothes on.
     
  19. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Maybe they do that to cover up their secret identity as The Ambiguously Gay Duo.
     
  20. Quagmire

    Quagmire Imaginary talking monkey
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    Of course you would, you'd be doing just what you're doing now.


    I think you should grab a dictionary and look up the word "atheist".

    I've never seen anyone use athiesm as a way of avoiding having to take responsibility for their own behavior. I've seen PLENTY of people use religion that way.

    Your understanding of atheists/atheism is as clouded as your understanding of your own motives.
     
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