Is Catholicism a true religion

[columbus]

Just what exactly do you think the word "worship" means?

I don't remember the precise definition the Catholics use. I'm sure you'll get a better one online. I do know it refers strictly to God.
Tom

 

[Aštra’el]

@columbus
I am specifically asking you what you think the word "worship" means, regardless of how Catholics might understand it.

 

[columbus]

@columbus
I am specifically asking you what you think the word "worship" means, regardless of how Catholics might understand it.

Oh well I don't think about it much, being a nontheist and all. Mostly whatever other people mean by it for themselves.
I suppose "a meditation focused on a fictional character from a religion " would be close.
Tom

 

[Aštra’el]

Oh well I don't think about it much, being a nontheist and all. Mostly whatever other people mean by it for themselves.
I suppose "a meditation focused on a fictional character from a religion " would be close.
Tom

Perhaps then you should consult a dictionary to obtain a better understanding of the word before declaring what does or does not constitute as "worship".

 

[Smart_Guy]

You are always so nice, SG!

Hope you've been doing well.

Had to do it when this was still in the Are You New to RF section and before it moved here

Now that it's here, I think it is nice to make such thread. I also think it is not nice to make such a thread. I consider such information in place if one is asked about it, not coming new and sudden with it. It seems like preaching away (if I get the expression right) from Catholicism since the member was part of it and left it.

Is it nice to hear from you again, HC. Hope all is good with ya.

 

[columbus]

Perhaps then you should consult a dictionary to obtain a better understanding of the word before declaring what does or does not constitute as "worship".

I thought that the context was extremely clear. OP claimed that worship of Mary is taught as Catholic Doctrine. I was talking about Catholic teachings. I may not be a theist, but I know a bit about Catholicism and get annoyed when people criticize Mother Church while demonstrating a good deal of ignorance on the subject.
Tom

 

[psychoslice]

The only true religion is found within each one of us, never in an institution or an organised religion, that would be sick.

 

[Aštra’el]

I thought that the context was extremely clear. OP claimed that worship of Mary is taught as Catholic Doctrine. I was talking about Catholic teachings. I may not be a theist, but I know a bit about Catholicism and get annoyed when people criticize Mother Church while demonstrating a good deal of ignorance on the subject.
Tom

The OP was an incoherent and jumbled mess. I was specifically referring to your post where you declared that "worship of Mary is not allowed". Being aware of the level of subjectivity attached to the term by those affiliated with certain religions, I assumed that you- being a, how did you put it, "non theist"- might put forth a more objective definition.

I found your definition of "worship" to be inadequate, so I consulted Merriam-Webster for something more accurate and substantial.

-Worship-

-reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; an act of expressing such reverence

-to honor or revere as a divine being or supernatural power

-extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem

-to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion

Now that we have established a more objective and unbiased understanding of the word "worship"... perhaps it might also be more clearly understood that worship of Mary is indeed a common occurance in Catholic culture.

And before I am accused of "criticizing Mother Church", I am not attacking Catholics for it; on the contrary I think that worship of Mary- even if they do not perceive it as such- is a beautiful thing that enhances their already epic spiritual-religious culture.

 

[columbus]

Now that we have established a more objective and unbiased definition of the word "worship"... perhaps it might be more clearly understood that worship of Mary is indeed a common occurance in Catholic culture.

Catholicism is a very big place and this probably wouldn't really cause you any problems. But it is definitely not Catholic Doctrine. In fact, I was specifically taught about this. Reverence and prayer is good, with regard to Mary and the saints. Not worship, that is strictly for God.
I am not talking about yours or mine, but only official Church teachings. Which is what the OP referenced.
Tom

ETA ~Veneration! That's the word I was trying to remember. It just popped into my head. Catholics make a clear distinction between worship and veneration. It's really a semantics quibble~

 

[Glaurung]

To become a Catholic you must attend classes /training that can last over a year or longer depending upon you local Bishop/Priest thinking you are ready to become a member.

Why is this a bad thing? Becoming a Catholic (or even a Christian) is a huge commitment, so a period of moral and doctrinal formation is completely necessary. You need to understand what you're converting to.

True Salvation according to the bible is to hear/read the Gospel and then examine yourself and then change your mind from unbelief to belief in Jesus Christ

Conversion is not a one time decision to believe in Christ, it is a lifelong process. Mere belief in Christ doesn't cut it (even the demons believe) you have to live a Christian life, in communion with the Chruch.

yet I can not recall ever hearing about this when I was within Catholicism

That is because the theology you advocate isn't in accord with that of the Catholic Chruch. This is a good validation of why catechism (the topic of your first objection) is so important. You seem to the upset that Catholicism isn't low Chruch Protestantism. Well duh...

The rest of your post (to be frank) is disjointed rambling so I won't address it.

 

[Milton Platt]

I will state all that I know about the Catholic Religion and why I think it is a false cult
To become a Catholic you must attend classes /training that can last over a year or longer depending upon you local Bishop/Priest thinking you are ready to become a member.

True Salvation according to the bible is to hear/read the Gospel and then examine yourself and then change your mind from unbelief to belief in Jesus Christ

yet I can not recall ever hearing about this when I was within Catholicism

My understanding of SIN AND DAILY SINS

SIN Which over 90 times in the Bible says we are to repent of this one SIN
Now the Catholic church say this SIN is our daily sins and those that are Mortal can undo your salvation.
Yet in rereading the Bible concerning our repenting of this SIN the Bible makes it very clear this one SIM
is UNBELIEF IN JESUS CHRIST and that no one will be save until they repent of this one SIN.

Further study shows that Christ came to be our Savior by shedding his innocent blood for all our daily sins
Thus all mankind's daily sins debt is already paid in full at Calvary but UNBELIEF can not be paid in full by blood or any other means except by a complete change of mind unto total belief in Jesus Christ

So while each Saturday most loyal Catholics and go to Confession to confess their sins and then have to do a penance concerning these daily sins that were in fact paid in full about 2 thousands years ago
Now to me says they don't really believe in Jesus Christ and I say their socalled befief in Jesus is suspect to say the least that is to say you believe in Jesus Christ and then go to confession each Saturday and confess your sins and then do a penance for the.m says to me that they don't really believe what Jesus did at Calvary

So here we have 3 conflicts between Catholicism and the Bible namely SIN (UNBELIEF) DAILY SINS AND SALVATION.
I have never heard of a catholic repent of their UNBELIEF TO BECOME A CATHOLIC.
DAILY SINS were paid in full by Jesus Christ at Calvary there are no instructions to confess these sins to any man and then this man says your sins are forgiven I seriously doubt he is able to remove any one sin by his own power. the closes we can get to this in Gal 5;17 'for the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh, and these are contrary, the one to the other ; so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 'As born again believers. we have the option to sin or not to give in to the flesh or follow the Sprit. When we follow Jesus. then 1 john 3;8b is fulfilled. what happens if we do sin? 'If we confess our sins , He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.and cleanse us from all unrighteousness1 John 1;9
and then believing salvation is here today and gone tomorrow if we commit sins is total false
the bible says salvation can not be ended once given you have it for all eternity
The law is dead to all believers as all Believer are now under GRACE

Now I admit all Catholics say they believe in Jesus and believe they eat him at every mass./
there is no such thnig as a bloodless sacrifice which the Catholic church claims they can do at every mass
The Bible say without the shedding of innocent blood there can be no remission of sins
But since Calvary when Jesus paid our sin debt. Now believers have been freed from needing innocent blood to forgive themselves from their sin we just need to pray to Jesus for forgivness
Yet Catholicism denys all this and has made a religion out of sins
Jesus in John 10'28,29 promised the believers that once he save you it then became his responsibility to keep us saved until he returns Yet here the Catholic Church calls Jesus a liar and says your mortal sin destroys your salvation
So is Catholicism a true religion where its member are truly saved snd that pope is god upon this earth. hhhmmmm I say no I think they are all lost because what they believe contradics what the Bible says
I won't even get into the false worship of Mary and her ability by Catholic Doctrie to be able to hear and answer and forgive sins.

The Jews and the Romans considered Christianity to be a cult. The only real difference between a cult and a religion is how many members it has

 

[Milton Platt]

Catholicism is a very big place and this probably wouldn't really cause you any problems. But it is definitely not Catholic Doctrine. In fact, I was specifically taught about this. Reverence and prayer is good, with regard to Mary and the saints. Not worship, that is strictly for God.
I am not talking about yours or mine, but only official Church teachings. Which is what the OP referenced.
Tom

ETA ~Veneration! That's the word I was trying to remember. It just popped into my head. Catholics make a clear distinction between worship and veneration. It's really a semantics quibble~

What is the actual difference between the words veneration and worship?

 

[Milton Platt]

Christianity has far more members than Judaism. Does that make Judaism a cult?

Exactly my point.

 

[Blastcat]

I will state all that I know about the Catholic Religion and why I think it is a false cult

They might think the same about your particular brand of religion. To Muslims, perhaps all Christianity represents a false cult. To atheists, perhaps ALL religions are false cults.

It seems plain to me that you like your cult better than the other cults. Happy culting.

 

[Robert Landbeck]

I'm commenting as a very excatholic, and while not questioning anyones sincerely who may be a Catholic, I came to the conclusion many years ago that the RCC has nothing to do with God or Christ. But to say that begs several bigger question. The first is whether theology is even a valid human intellectual project. And as all Christology is theological, it the RCC is false, then so is everything else making claims to speak in the name of Christ. Secondly, while religion obviously exists and has existed for thousands of years, that does not necessarily mean that God, assuming there is a God, is active in the World.

Yet there are criteria to judge Christian claims. The Promise of the Incarnation was that Christ would provide or reveal the means to defeat evil and usher in the Kingdom of God. That has not obviously happened. So speaking for myself, true religion only begins when the means to confront evil is revealed. Probably what a second coming intends to do?

I will state all that I know about the Catholic Religion and why I think it is a false cult
To become a Catholic you must attend classes /training that can last over a year or longer depending upon you local Bishop/Priest thinking you are ready to become a member.

True Salvation according to the bible is to hear/read the Gospel and then examine yourself and then change your mind from unbelief to belief in Jesus Christ

yet I can not recall ever hearing about this when I was within Catholicism

My understanding of SIN AND DAILY SINS

SIN Which over 90 times in the Bible says we are to repent of this one SIN
Now the Catholic church say this SIN is our daily sins and those that are Mortal can undo your salvation.
Yet in rereading the Bible concerning our repenting of this SIN the Bible makes it very clear this one SIM
is UNBELIEF IN JESUS CHRIST and that no one will be save until they repent of this one SIN.

Further study shows that Christ came to be our Savior by shedding his innocent blood for all our daily sins
Thus all mankind's daily sins debt is already paid in full at Calvary but UNBELIEF can not be paid in full by blood or any other means except by a complete change of mind unto total belief in Jesus Christ

So while each Saturday most loyal Catholics and go to Confession to confess their sins and then have to do a penance concerning these daily sins that were in fact paid in full about 2 thousands years ago
Now to me says they don't really believe in Jesus Christ and I say their socalled befief in Jesus is suspect to say the least that is to say you believe in Jesus Christ and then go to confession each Saturday and confess your sins and then do a penance for the.m says to me that they don't really believe what Jesus did at Calvary

So here we have 3 conflicts between Catholicism and the Bible namely SIN (UNBELIEF) DAILY SINS AND SALVATION.
I have never heard of a catholic repent of their UNBELIEF TO BECOME A CATHOLIC.
DAILY SINS were paid in full by Jesus Christ at Calvary there are no instructions to confess these sins to any man and then this man says your sins are forgiven I seriously doubt he is able to remove any one sin by his own power. the closes we can get to this in Gal 5;17 'for the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh, and these are contrary, the one to the other ; so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 'As born again believers. we have the option to sin or not to give in to the flesh or follow the Sprit. When we follow Jesus. then 1 john 3;8b is fulfilled. what happens if we do sin? 'If we confess our sins , He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.and cleanse us from all unrighteousness1 John 1;9
and then believing salvation is here today and gone tomorrow if we commit sins is total false
the bible says salvation can not be ended once given you have it for all eternity
The law is dead to all believers as all Believer are now under GRACE

Now I admit all Catholics say they believe in Jesus and believe they eat him at every mass./
there is no such thnig as a bloodless sacrifice which the Catholic church claims they can do at every mass
The Bible say without the shedding of innocent blood there can be no remission of sins
But since Calvary when Jesus paid our sin debt. Now believers have been freed from needing innocent blood to forgive themselves from their sin we just need to pray to Jesus for forgivness
Yet Catholicism denys all this and has made a religion out of sins
Jesus in John 10'28,29 promised the believers that once he save you it then became his responsibility to keep us saved until he returns Yet here the Catholic Church calls Jesus a liar and says your mortal sin destroys your salvation
So is Catholicism a true religion where its member are truly saved snd that pope is god upon this earth. hhhmmmm I say no I think they are all lost because what they believe contradics what the Bible says
I won't even get into the false worship of Mary and her ability by Catholic Doctrie to be able to hear and answer and forgive sins.

 

[David T]

Such a Catholic question.

 

[kaoticprofit]

I'm instead going to go right ahead and ask 'what the hell is a "Catholic Non-Trinitarian"?'

A Catholic non-Trinitarian is what I call myself because I refuse to associate myself with the Protestants who I consider to be divided, divisive, and offensive. IF there's any CHURCH I would align myself with, the closest I can arrive at is the Church of my youth and that is Catholicism. Over the years I've studied and acquired my own theology. NO church has everything right. Catholicism takes a historical approach to end-time prophecy. I don't. The Protestants take mostly a futurist approach, and they have nearly everything WRONG. The trinity is a bogus doctrine blown way out of proportion. So, I'll call myself a Catholic whether you or anyone else likes it or not. Are you one of these obsessed Catholics where you think salvation IS found in the Church? I know one Catholic who's like that and even his Catholic friends think he's fanatical. He's a turn off just like the Protestants.

The Ecclesia does not claim, and never has claimed, and never will claim, that She is the provider of salvation. Christ alone saves, by bringing faithful into His body. His Body subsists within the Catholic Church, and is found nowhere outside of Her

You've been deceived. There are fanatics on both sides of the aisle. Some Protestants go as far as to condemn people for not using the 1611 version of the bible, or for being non-trinitarian. And some Catholics do like you do. Claim that only Catholics are in the body of Christ. Being part of Christ body has NOTHING to do with your church, but all to do with accepting Christ or NOT accepting Christ.

 

[kaoticprofit]

Your religion does not provide Salvation; Jesus does.

You seem to be affirming the premise of the original commentary, namely, that the Catholic church, thinks that it is providing Salvation, and not Jesus, & redemptive acts, whatever proportion to the sacrifice redemption, a Jesus follower already has.

It's not up to you to determine who is or is not saved. Your comment is precisely why I'll never associate myself with the Protestants. You people call demonize too many other churches. I want NOTHING to do with the Protestants.

 

[metis]

I will state all that I know about the Catholic Religion and why I think it is a false cult
To become a Catholic you must attend classes /training that can last over a year or longer depending upon you local Bishop/Priest thinking you are ready to become a member.

True Salvation according to the bible is to hear/read the Gospel and then examine yourself and then change your mind from unbelief to belief in Jesus Christ

yet I can not recall ever hearing about this when I was within Catholicism

My understanding of SIN AND DAILY SINS

SIN Which over 90 times in the Bible says we are to repent of this one SIN
Now the Catholic church say this SIN is our daily sins and those that are Mortal can undo your salvation.
Yet in rereading the Bible concerning our repenting of this SIN the Bible makes it very clear this one SIM
is UNBELIEF IN JESUS CHRIST and that no one will be save until they repent of this one SIN.

Further study shows that Christ came to be our Savior by shedding his innocent blood for all our daily sins
Thus all mankind's daily sins debt is already paid in full at Calvary but UNBELIEF can not be paid in full by blood or any other means except by a complete change of mind unto total belief in Jesus Christ

So while each Saturday most loyal Catholics and go to Confession to confess their sins and then have to do a penance concerning these daily sins that were in fact paid in full about 2 thousands years ago
Now to me says they don't really believe in Jesus Christ and I say their socalled befief in Jesus is suspect to say the least that is to say you believe in Jesus Christ and then go to confession each Saturday and confess your sins and then do a penance for the.m says to me that they don't really believe what Jesus did at Calvary

So here we have 3 conflicts between Catholicism and the Bible namely SIN (UNBELIEF) DAILY SINS AND SALVATION.
I have never heard of a catholic repent of their UNBELIEF TO BECOME A CATHOLIC.
DAILY SINS were paid in full by Jesus Christ at Calvary there are no instructions to confess these sins to any man and then this man says your sins are forgiven I seriously doubt he is able to remove any one sin by his own power. the closes we can get to this in Gal 5;17 'for the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh, and these are contrary, the one to the other ; so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 'As born again believers. we have the option to sin or not to give in to the flesh or follow the Sprit. When we follow Jesus. then 1 john 3;8b is fulfilled. what happens if we do sin? 'If we confess our sins , He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.and cleanse us from all unrighteousness1 John 1;9
and then believing salvation is here today and gone tomorrow if we commit sins is total false
the bible says salvation can not be ended once given you have it for all eternity
The law is dead to all believers as all Believer are now under GRACE

Now I admit all Catholics say they believe in Jesus and believe they eat him at every mass./
there is no such thnig as a bloodless sacrifice which the Catholic church claims they can do at every mass
The Bible say without the shedding of innocent blood there can be no remission of sins
But since Calvary when Jesus paid our sin debt. Now believers have been freed from needing innocent blood to forgive themselves from their sin we just need to pray to Jesus for forgivness
Yet Catholicism denys all this and has made a religion out of sins
Jesus in John 10'28,29 promised the believers that once he save you it then became his responsibility to keep us saved until he returns Yet here the Catholic Church calls Jesus a liar and says your mortal sin destroys your salvation
So is Catholicism a true religion where its member are truly saved snd that pope is god upon this earth. hhhmmmm I say no I think they are all lost because what they believe contradics what the Bible says
I won't even get into the false worship of Mary and her ability by Catholic Doctrie to be able to hear and answer and forgive sins.

Catholicism is not a "religion"-- it's a "denomination" of Christianity. Stalwart did such an excellent job in his post #9 that counters your ramblings that I need not respond any more on that terribly misguided OP of yours.

BTW, I'm neither Catholic nor Christian, but wrong is wrong, and what you posted is wrong on so many counts.

 

[kaoticprofit]

Before I even read the garbage that is surely to follow, why is your 'understanding' superior to that of two millennia's worth of theologians and doctors of the Church?

People seem to think that because a belief system has been in place for a long time that it's infallible. That's just ONE thing that makes Christianity so unappealing to unbelievers.