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Featured Is Catholicism a true religion

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by knghtkings, Dec 8, 2016.

  1. knghtkings

    knghtkings New Member

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    I will state all that I know about the Catholic Religion and why I think it is a false cult
    To become a Catholic you must attend classes /training that can last over a year or longer depending upon you local Bishop/Priest thinking you are ready to become a member.

    True Salvation according to the bible is to hear/read the Gospel and then examine yourself and then change your mind from unbelief to belief in Jesus Christ

    yet I can not recall ever hearing about this when I was within Catholicism

    My understanding of SIN AND DAILY SINS

    SIN Which over 90 times in the Bible says we are to repent of this one SIN
    Now the Catholic church say this SIN is our daily sins and those that are Mortal can undo your salvation.
    Yet in rereading the Bible concerning our repenting of this SIN the Bible makes it very clear this one SIM
    is UNBELIEF IN JESUS CHRIST and that no one will be save until they repent of this one SIN.

    Further study shows that Christ came to be our Savior by shedding his innocent blood for all our daily sins
    Thus all mankind's daily sins debt is already paid in full at Calvary but UNBELIEF can not be paid in full by blood or any other means except by a complete change of mind unto total belief in Jesus Christ

    So while each Saturday most loyal Catholics and go to Confession to confess their sins and then have to do a penance concerning these daily sins that were in fact paid in full about 2 thousands years ago
    Now to me says they don't really believe in Jesus Christ and I say their socalled befief in Jesus is suspect to say the least that is to say you believe in Jesus Christ and then go to confession each Saturday and confess your sins and then do a penance for the.m says to me that they don't really believe what Jesus did at Calvary

    So here we have 3 conflicts between Catholicism and the Bible namely SIN (UNBELIEF) DAILY SINS AND SALVATION.
    I have never heard of a catholic repent of their UNBELIEF TO BECOME A CATHOLIC.
    DAILY SINS were paid in full by Jesus Christ at Calvary there are no instructions to confess these sins to any man and then this man says your sins are forgiven I seriously doubt he is able to remove any one sin by his own power. the closes we can get to this in Gal 5;17 'for the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh, and these are contrary, the one to the other ; so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 'As born again believers. we have the option to sin or not to give in to the flesh or follow the Sprit. When we follow Jesus. then 1 john 3;8b is fulfilled. what happens if we do sin? 'If we confess our sins , He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.and cleanse us from all unrighteousness1 John 1;9
    and then believing salvation is here today and gone tomorrow if we commit sins is total false
    the bible says salvation can not be ended once given you have it for all eternity
    The law is dead to all believers as all Believer are now under GRACE

    Now I admit all Catholics say they believe in Jesus and believe they eat him at every mass./
    there is no such thnig as a bloodless sacrifice which the Catholic church claims they can do at every mass
    The Bible say without the shedding of innocent blood there can be no remission of sins
    But since Calvary when Jesus paid our sin debt. Now believers have been freed from needing innocent blood to forgive themselves from their sin we just need to pray to Jesus for forgivness
    Yet Catholicism denys all this and has made a religion out of sins
    Jesus in John 10'28,29 promised the believers that once he save you it then became his responsibility to keep us saved until he returns Yet here the Catholic Church calls Jesus a liar and says your mortal sin destroys your salvation
    So is Catholicism a true religion where its member are truly saved snd that pope is god upon this earth. hhhmmmm I say no I think they are all lost because what they believe contradics what the Bible says
    I won't even get into the false worship of Mary and her ability by Catholic Doctrie to be able to hear and answer and forgive sins.
     
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  2. Rival

    Rival Noachide Counter-Revolutionary
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    Have you ever considered that belief in Jesus might be wrong? Not just Catholicism?
     
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  3. Carmel

    Carmel New Member

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    Is... isn't this the wrong forum? I would think that fulminations against Catholicism would go in one of the Christian DIRs...
     
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  4. lovesong

    lovesong .little necromancer. .shaman in training.
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    May I suggest a DIR for this. This isn't really the place for preaching.
     
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  5. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
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    Neither are DIRs, nor are they for bashing religions. This should be in the Religious Debates area.
     
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  6. Jackrabbti

    Jackrabbti Member

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    This thread should probably be moved to the appropriate subforum.

    I think the cult of Mary has sort-of answers for your concerns. For example, you repent to priests because priests are stand-ins for Christ. If you want to be Catholic, you'd have to accept these answers. The only reason the Catholic Church isn't universally seen as a false cult is because it's so old and so big.

    Even without judging the Catholic Church's doctrines, I see the Catholic Church as useless, but not the worst thing in the world. (Atheists with power are the most oppressive of a-holes, consider examples such as Kim Jong-un, Pol Pot, Stalin, and Mao.)
     
  7. Smart_Guy

    Smart_Guy ...
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    Welcome aboard :p
     
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  8. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Well said, great questions
     
  9. Stalwart

    Stalwart Member

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    Heresy is the worst of all sins; it damns the self, and scandalises others who are corrupted by deviant ideas. In such laid-back times as these, there is no reason not to properly inform catechumens in the faith before confirming them.

    It were better for him, that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should scandalize one of these little ones. (Luke 17:2)

    What is the Gospel, and how does this point conflict with Catholicism?

    Then you are either deaf, or were a part of a poor parish. In this era, the latter is more likely than not.

    Before I even read the garbage that is surely to follow, why is your 'understanding' superior to that of two millennia's worth of theologians and doctors of the Church?

    So you can sin as much as you like - consciously and deliberately - and still be called a Christian, and still be saved, so long as you acknowledge Christ as your saviour? Whatever you say. See how that works out for you.

    Christ alone is our means of salvation because only his sacrifice is worthy; nothing we could ever do can merit salvation for us. How does this conflict with Catholicism, again?

    Penance is not satisfaction for sins. It is the manifestation of repentance. I would say, contrarily, that a lack of willingness to do penance demonstrates a lack of faith in Christ, because you do not regret your transgressions, which are many and grave.

    ...What?

    It is the same sacrifice, which is eternal. The Mass is not a new sacrifice.

    This is obviously said in reference to the sacrifice of Christ. Only His blood can bring about the remission of sins.

    And do penance, lest your faith be without works, and thereby be dead.

    Correct. No third-party entity - even the devil - can take us from God's care. But have you considered that we can depart from Him of our own accord, through free will? The only thing that can come between a man and God is that same man himself.

    No Catholic has ever claimed this - you are completely and utterly ignorant.

    Not a single element of Catholic doctrine or dogma is contrary to scripture. It is our most important document, after all - we are bound to it.

    I was beginning to wonder when this would come up. For about the 14th time this week, we do not worship Mary. That would be blasphemy; worship is owed to God alone.[/QUOTE]
     
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  10. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    What does this mean?
    You certainly don't know much about the Church.
    Tom
     
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  11. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Moving thread to Religious Debates
     
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  12. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    @knghtkings Does it make you feel closer to your god to bash other religions? Just curious.
     
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  13. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    You are always so nice, SG!

    Hope you've been doing well.
     
  14. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Welcome to the party.

    EDIT Oh, by the way. Threads like this would be more appropriate here: Religious debates

    Have you been intimately and seriously not dogmatically and ritualistically involved in the Church? If so, did the sacraments of the Church make you cry to Jesus and gave you a devotional life that you even if you walked away, you'd keep it in memory?

    Have you ever fallin' in love with Christ through the body of Christ?

    To become Christian, one must only be Baptized according to The Church. Anyone Christian be "Catholic" by repenting (confession), telling you want jesus to be lord and savior (confirmation), being a part of people of like minds (communion), and partaking in the lord's supper (the Eucharist).

    If your preference in doing all of these things that all Christians do is through the Church, then by technicality yes, you take classes. It's a denominational initiation. You are Christian regardless if you take the sacraments or not.

    People look at all the gold and it blinds them to what the Church teaches at its foundation. It's just as any other Christian Church just it has a more in-depth way of strengthening a person in Christ that I have yet to see in any protestant church I've gone to (outside of liturgical Churches).

    1. Hear/read the gospel: Is confirmation and Mass

    2. Examine yourself: Is pertinence, prayer, and devotion

    3. Change your mind: is repentance

    Same thing in the Church by different names.

    What year did you go into Catholicism or was raised into it? In the 80s people weren't even allowed to read their Bibles. I went to a Catholic retreat and one lady in her early 50s told me she got punished for questioning her teachers. That's not Catholicism (at least not spiritually/scriptural). That's abusing the Church. The Church teachings and scripture does not teach the experiences people have from the Church. I got yelled from a priest one time but I didn't blame the Church for his misdeeds. That's silly.

    I went into the Church five years ago and came out after four years. I came in as an adult and I receive the same thing that protestant churches receive but it was more personal. The support and community was not like protestant churches (non-liturgical churches). The sacraments let you have the physical experience of being spiritually born again in Christ. It's a full physical and spiritual experience not a belief and not dogma.

    Mortal sins put a person in a state of unforgivable sin unless that person repents. If that person does not repent, then that Christian (not Catholic. Not Baptist. Not JW) Christian is disobeying god. What you're saying is that a Christian can sin, they don't have to repent, and still be saved?

    That's like me hitting my mother, stealing my brother's toy, and still getting my Christmas presents for good deeds.

    The Church helps people (hopefully those who go to a healthy parish) helps people repent so they won't be in that cycle of repentance all the time. If moral and venial sins were not separated, people would be repenting to god at confession 24/7. Some sins people repent on their own. The bigger ones, they go to the Church to get reconciliation with the body of Christ not just Christ himself.

    That's why many go to Church to repent. They are not only resealing their faith in Christ but they are also saying sorry to the body of Christ as well. It's not individualistic. Christianity is communal.

    That's why they have mortal sins. Mortal sins puts a person in a state of unforgiveness. If they believed in Christ, they would turn from sinning. Mortal sins are "symptoms" of straying away from Christ. How can one just not believe in Christ? There is an action or change of heart that goes on or symptom and that is a mortal sin that needs repentance. You're saying that once a person turns from Christ, they can't come back?

    One shot belief?

    Yes, that's why Mass is held three or four times a day everyday depending on the area. The Christian is always in a state of repentance and resurrection. The difference is Catholics rather do this with the full body of Christ. Many want to do it alone. Both have Christ. I don't see the conflict.

    That means I can kill and still believe in Christ and go to heaven?
    Wouldn't mortal sins be a symptom of unbelief in Christ?
    If one believes in Christ, he would be concerned with not sining because sins separate the Christian from Christ.

    Mortal sins separate the person from Christ. Unbelief does nothing in and of itself. Many people have revelations from unbelief. Not many people can just stop sinning. Christ puts emphasis on actions and faith not just faith.

    Catholics go to repent for sins they commit. Once they repent, they find a way to "make it up" to god for the sins they did maybe in prayer or helping the homeless. They've done this for two thousand years.

    I think the terminology is throwing you off a bit.

    Have you ever gone through the Passion of Christ during the couple of weeks before Christ's resurrection and communion? It's a pretty deep experience. It's not a so-called belief.

    It's an experience and action not just belief and faith.

    I can't imagine someone believing in any religion just sitting on their cushion hoping (having faith) god will save them without lifting a finger in gratitude.

    Not many Catholics will tell you want they repent of. A lot of people struggle with faith. Many people doubt and others have unbelief but want to believe again. This is a Christian thing regardless the denomination.

    Catholics don't eat Jesus. That's silly. They eat consecrated bread and wine. When they come to communion and all eat of bread and wine together, it becomes the Body of Christ. Christ defines himself by the body of his people-the apostles and believers. Anyone who partakes in the bread and wine (not hair, flesh, bones, and skin) has everlasting life.

    Catholics believe if you are baptized you are in a state of grace. You are not Catholic because of the sacraments but you are Christian via baptism. It has nothing to do with the Eucharist (the consecrated bread and wine) that's all Catholicism (both Roman and Orthodox mind you).

    They partake in Jesus flesh and blood. His death/flesh and his resurrection/blood. His Crucifixion and life. His Passion.

    Read between the lines.

    That's why there is Mass. Mass is going through the full passion of Christ. His life, death, and resurrection. Cool experience. Better than belief and dogma, I tell ya.

    I disagree. Only because I know the Church more personally and I was never indoctrinated. I had time to study and read the full Bible, make connections, and understand the meaning behind the visible stuff people keep complaining about. It matured my faith while in the Church.

    I wish others had that same experience.

    Well, I have many threads on how these things are totally misinterpreted. It also depends on where you live, what year you were born and raised in the Church, and what type of parish you went to. There are different "Sects" in Catholicism. Dominican, I hear, seem to be the strictest.
     
  15. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    1 Corinthians 5 discusses those who were Christian, yet they willfully committed a sin.

    Jesus' words @ Matthew 7:21-23 give some detail about a similar situation.

    Take care.
     
  16. kaoticprofit

    kaoticprofit Active Member

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    I love my Catholic church. Especially around Easter and Christmas. I especially like the Stations of the Cross.Salvation IS NOT found in your religion. However, your religion can sometimes cause you to lose your salvation.

    Thanks for the great reply stalwart.
     
  17. Stalwart

    Stalwart Member

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    I'm not even going to bother addressing your error in regards to the necessity of the Catholic religion to salvation - I'm instead going to go right ahead and ask 'what the hell is a "Catholic Non-Trinitarian"?'

    The Ecclesia does not claim, and never has claimed, and never will claim, that She is the provider of salvation. Christ alone saves, by bringing faithful into His body. His Body subsists within the Catholic Church, and is found nowhere outside of Her.
     
  18. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    I am no fan of the Catholic Church or of any particular flavor of Christianity or Churchianity, but in all fairness Catholic doctrine is as valid as any other doctrine out there. It's not like the Catholic church alone is based on questionable ideas. Jus' sayin'...

    If Catholics choose to believe that Mary can hear and answer prayers as well as forgive sins, who are we, exactly, to suggest otherwise? C'mon it's not like Catholics are strapping on bombs belts to go out for one last shopping trip. We, collectively, have much bigger fish to fry.
     
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  19. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    If he were ever really a Catholic he would know that this isn't true.
    A saint, Mother of God, exalted, revered, the list is just endless. But Mary is not god and worship is not even allowed, much less taught.
    Tom
     
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  20. Goddess_Ashtara

    Goddess_Ashtara NIN MOJAVE AK IMEN

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    Just what exactly do you think the word "worship" means?

     
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