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Imagine that Native American come to your home to kick you out

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I didn't say it was ethical, just that it's a fact of life. A predatory, winner-take-all world is just how the capitalists, nationalists, and imperialists wanted it. Now you're complaining about it?
Are you claiming that I'm a nationalist &/or an imperialist?
If you are, then shame on you.
If not, then this is a bogus distraction.

Many things are facts of life. The problem here is that
some see Israel's theft & brutality as acceptable "facts of
life" made necessary by an enemy they cannot accommodate
by peaceful means. The facts of life must change.
Besides, we both agree that Israel will never be conquered because they have the "Samson Option." Nukes are the great equalizers in geopolitics.
Note how Israel played its role to inspire Iran's
acquiring them because of the existential threat
posed by the Israel Ameristan alliance.
Rather than accepting this as just another "fact of
life", we should seek to change things for less hostility.
I'm just saying that both sides have some responsibility here. I also never said that they must just accept losing land and rights. But the milk has already been spilled, and giving back the land is no longer an option. But those who lost their land can be compensated, which is my main point. If they can't have that land back, maybe they can be given land somewhere else of comparable value. We can't turn back the clock and undo what's already been done, but maybe there's still a way to salvage the situation.
Israel has far & away the greatest power here. And they've
been mis-using it. Responsibility is not equal here.
Only the Israelis can send things in a peaceful direction.
Some good first steps....
- Equal rights for Jews & non-Jews.
- Stop taking people's property.
- End the economic oppression.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
All.Countries their.Citizens had same rights.except Israel.
I think.ISRAEL had more responsible than.Palestinians.
By changing.Laws.Pro.Jews.Which claim.Land.Or home.Of other.Race.
Also.All.Are.Equal.Under.Laws.Who.Did.Crrim pay.The consequences whatever his.Race.Or.Religion.
At this.Time.Israel.Will be.Accepted by Arabs.And.MUSLIMS.
IF.ISRAEL.CONTINUE.AS RACISM.REGIME.PALESTINIAN AND arabs had right to fight it.
Having some trouble reading that.
But I grok that yes, Palestinians & Arabs are right to fight
Israel's oppression. I loathe that it plays out this way,
when the parties could negotiate peace instead.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
What options does the population of Gaza have at this point? They're trapped in a semi-legal territory that consists of a besieged city surrounded by a country that considers them illegal aliens at best and dangerous terrorists at worst, and the international community doesn't recognize their government as anything other than a terrorist organization.

None of the Arab states are taking on Palestinian refugees, and none of them have a vested interest in seeing the lives of Palestinian Arabs improve, because so far they have been more useful as an object of political propaganda to whip up mass support than as recipients of actual material support.

Citizens of Israel, meanwhile, can freely move about the Western world, and live in a country that, while surrounded by hostile regimes, also enjoys substantial economic and political support from the world's largest economic and military powers, to the point where they can afford a post-industrial first world lifestyle in a region surrounded by developing countries.
GAZA SURROUNDING BY RACISM COUNTRY.WANT KILL THEM ALL.JUST.FEEL.AFRAID.FROM INTERNATIONAL OPINION.
IF ABOUT LABEL TERRORISM ABOUT KILL. CIVILIANS . ISRAEL WOULD. BE CALLED TERRORISM REGIME.
BUT WORLD. STILL INJUSTICE.
YOU WRONG. ARABS HOST PALESTINIANS AS REFUGEES. ESPECIALLY IN LEBANON AND JORDAN AND SYRIA AND IRAQ
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Having some trouble reading that.
But I grok that yes, Palestinians & Arabs are right to fight
Israel's oppression. I loathe that it plays out this way,
when the parties could negotiate peace instead.
SORRY BRO MY MOBILE KEYBOARD.
IT'S IN HAND OF Israel, and also USA must.Stop be bias to Israel.And forced both to be in peace under justice.Laws.with no more racism and oppression.
All equal in law court whatever religion or. race. That's will end all Problems
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
SORRY BRO MY MOBILE KEYBOARD.
IT'S IN HAND OF Israel, and also USA must.Stop be bias to Israel.And forced both to be in peace under justice.Laws.with no more racism and oppression.
All equal in law court whatever religion or. race. That's will end all Problems
I don't see my country being useful in calming this
conflict. We support Israel financially & militarily,
yet we exercise very little influence. Biden is only
showing some concern because he'd otherwise
risk political losses.
We even stop the UN from exercising influence.
Something else....something worse will likely
force positive change there, eg, war expanding
to include Russia, Iran, & China. (Ameristan has
been chomping at the bit to attack Iran openly.)

If only Israel would stop taking land from Muslims,
& treat them fairly, they'd all be so much better off.
Empathy for the other tribe is key. They need it.
 
Last edited:

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Are you claiming that I'm a nationalist &/or an imperialist?
If you are, then shame on you.
If not, then this is a bogus distraction.

Many things are facts of life. The problem here is that
some see Israel's theft & brutality as acceptable "facts of
life" made necessary by an enemy they cannot accommodate
by peaceful means. The facts of life must change.

All I'm saying is that if we want a predatory, dog-eat-dog world, then that's what we will have, to one degree or another.

I also agree that the facts of life must change. I think the best solution to most world problems is to have a world-wide government where all humans are treated equally, according to the principle, from each according to his ability and to each according to his need. That's the way it can be done.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
All I'm saying is that if we want a predatory, dog-eat-dog world, then that's what we will have, to one degree or another.
Why state this?
Who wants it?
I also agree that the facts of life must change. I think the best solution to most world problems is to have a world-wide government where all humans are treated equally, according to the principle, from each according to his ability and to each according to his need. That's the way it can be done.
A world-wide commie government....the opiate of liberals.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Why state this?
Who wants it?

Well, I suppose I could cite millennia of human history which would demonstrate what I'm saying. It's a very significant part of our culture and perception of the world.

A world-wide commie government....the opiate of liberals.

You ask above "Why state this? Who wants it?" As if you're against that kind of world, but then you reject the solution. This is a part of the problem.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Well, I suppose I could cite millennia of human history which would demonstrate what I'm saying. It's a very significant part of our culture and perception of the world.
So it's not an issue currently under discussion, eh.
You ask above "Why state this? Who wants it?" As if you're against that kind of world, but then you reject the solution. This is a part of the problem.
A one world communist government.....
Your solution is a cure worse than the disease.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So it's not an issue currently under discussion, eh.

Well, when governments and political factions work and succeed at building the kind of world we have, isn't it a safe bet to say that they wanted it this way? Are you suggesting the world as it is today is just a tragic, unintended mistake?

A one world communist government.....
Your solution is a cure worse than the disease.

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Well, when governments and political factions work and succeed at building the kind of world we have, isn't it a safe bet to say that they wanted it this way? Are you suggesting the world as it is today is just a tragic, unintended mistake?
I just find this vague general musing to be
rather detached from the thread's theme.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
when you leave your neighborhood 1000 years ago, you shouldn't be able to come back and evict people that have lived there for hundreds of years
The Jews never “left”. There have been Jews living in the land continuously for over 3,000 years.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I'm reading (edit: from news reports and editorials) that:

- most of the Jews who lost their land in Sheikh Jarrah were compensated for it (and that nobody's suggesting they give back the compensation).

- many families in Sheikh Jarrah who are now being evicted were themselves forced off their land in parts of Israel, but they have no legal mechanism to enforce their property rights and force the current occupants off their land.

What's your take on this?
@Harel13 - or any other eviction supporters - any response?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I responded in kind.

This may be a difference between how we look at the world. I see events as being connected to each other, with certain causes and effects. You tend to see them as detached from each other, separated and compartmentalized. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but it might explain why we have such different views of the world.
 
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