If you see a miracle, will you then believe?

[FearGod]

You would still believe even though you knew it was fake? Why?

I said I won't believe if I know it was fake, where did I say that I'll still believe?

 

[FearGod]

Which God?

The creator of the universe.

 

[Vinayaka]

I said I won't believe if I know it was fake, where did I say that I'll still believe?

Sorry, I misunderstood then. I realise English is your second language. Good to know you would no longer believe in God. For your sake I hope that never happens.

 

[SalixIncendium]

The creator of the universe.

That really doesn’t answer my question, so I’ll assume your perception of God...

No, such a miracle would prove nothing to me unless your God himself came to me with the blind man, introduced himself as FearGod’s God, and said, “Hey Salix! Watch this!!” and proceeded to cure the blind man in front of me.

 

[FearGod]

miracles, are no proof on their own, just a display of power.
apparently some can work the impossible, but that doesn't mean they have or know Love.

Love and hate booth exist, bad and good.
Will you believe in God if all are loving and all are good?

 

[FearGod]

Sorry, I misunderstood then. I realise English is your second language. Good to know you would no longer believe in God. For your sake I hope that never happens.

My reply was "Why I have to believe if I know it was fake"
How I should say it in English as to be more clear?

 

[MNoBody]

Love and hate booth exist, bad and good.
Will you believe in God if all are loving and all are good?

such "proof" is not required for me to accept the obvious fact that any child can begin to observe
that indeed there is a mysterious "Force" of "Good" at work in the phenomenology we call reality...
and also its corollary [ opposition] a force of evil
[all very mysterious, yet paradoxically obvious]
the -good -we call God
the -evil -we call Devil.
which then gets relativistically interpreted into as many points of view as there are perspectives looking at it.

 

[FearGod]

That really doesn’t answer my question, so I’ll assume your perception of God...

No, such a miracle would prove nothing to me unless your God himself came to me with the blind man, introduced himself as FearGod’s God, and said, “Hey Salix! Watch this!!” and proceeded to cure the blind man in front of me.

If God can't be seen but he showed you his power, you still won't believe, right

 

[Vinayaka]

My reply was "Why I have to believe if I know it was fake"
How I should say it in English as to be more clear?

'There is no reason for me to believe in God if the miracle was fake.'

The essence of the problem in communicating was that the word 'believe' was formerly used in two contexts. The first context was the belief in God, and the second context was belief in the fake miracle. When continuation of a conversation occurs, it makes for better communication if you make reference to the original context, so your reader doesn't get confused, as I did.

 

[sun rise]

miracles, are no proof on their own, just a display of power.
apparently some can work the impossible, but that doesn't mean they have or know Love.

In the East these are known as siddhis. I particularly like this legend about how little value powers (miracles) have:

One day Hasan AlBasri saw Rabia near a lake. He threw his prayer rug on top of the water and said:

"Rabia come! Let us pray two rakat here."

She replied:

"Hasan, when you are showing off your spiritual goods in the worldly market, it should be things which your fellow men cannot display."

She then threw her prayer rug into the air and flew up onto it saying:

"Come up here, Hasan, where people can see us."

Then she said:

"Hasan, what you did, fish can do, and what I did, flies can do. But the real business is outside these tricks. One must apply oneself to the real business."

 

[SalixIncendium]

If God can't be seen but he showed you his power, you still won't believe, right

Am I missing something here?

Your creator God showed me bupkis.

Where is the evidence of his power if he can’t be seen? How do I know it wasn’t my power?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Will you believe in God if all are loving and all are good?

Yeah, I will. Which religion will I have to join? Christianity, Islam, Bahai, Ahmadiyya or JW.

 

[FearGod]

'There is no reason for me to believe in God if the miracle was fake.'

The essence of the problem in communicating was that the word 'believe' was formerly used in two contexts. The first context was the belief in God, and the second context was belief in the fake miracle. When continuation of a conversation occurs, it makes for better communication if you make reference to the original context, so your reader doesn't get confused, as I did.

The problem that I should pointed to God in the first context and to the miracle in the second
context, but I assumed that believe is referred to God and fake is referred to the miracle.
you should read between the lines.

 

[PureX]

Is it like you'll make any excuse as not to believe regardless of any proof?

No, it's like being honest with myself about what I can know, and what I cannot. What I believe is irrelevant to what is. It's only relevant to me, and how I deal with 'what is'. And the same for you.

 

[FearGod]

Am I missing something here?

Your creator God showed me bupkis.

Where is the evidence of his power if he can’t be seen? How do I know it wasn’t my power?

Do you see the electromagnetic waves?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

If someone came to you and told you that God exists and you should follow
some instructions in order to be safe in the afterlife, and if it happened that you
asked him for a proof for God's existence and he showed you one such as
healing a blind man and letting him to see.

Will you believe that God exists if you know that the miracle was real or you'll still disbelieve?

If someone comes to you and performs a real miracle and cure a blind, but tells you, this is my own power, there is no God, and Quran is a false book, would you believe him, if the miracle is real?
The same with you example. Suppose the miracle was real, but it was not really God who did it, but the person had some special power to do the miracle, but falsely claiming it was God who did it. How do you know this is not possible?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Do you see the electromagnetic waves?

No, but I can see a straw man.

My point was that your 'all powerful' God didn't (or couldn't) show himself to provide evidence that he performed the miracle. Stop misrepresenting my argument with pointless questions.

 

[halbhh]

If someone came to you and told you that God exists and you should follow
some instructions in order to be safe in the afterlife, and if it happened that you
asked him for a proof for God's existence and he showed you one such as
healing a blind man and letting him to see.

Will you believe that God exists if you know that the miracle was real or you'll still disbelieve?

Good question!

What I actually did (so it's not just a guess or estimation!) is that I took the amazing event (not your example, but just as jaw dropping to me) and it only spurred me to investigate.

Instead of just thinking God existed, I allowed that of course one doesn't know and that even though God might exist, there could be another explanation.

That's exactly how I reacted.

For instance, I considered there might be some such as one of those bizarre sounding (at first, that is) theories such as the Quantum Mechanics interpretation where consciousness causes wave function collapse and such -- consciousness controls reality -- that some such might be. (and of course, in retrospect, those more out-there QM interpretations are not mutually exclusive other explanations, or to God; one could have both)

Maybe something like that, but not just ordinary normal everyday common sense classical mechanics....

So, I simply started investigating and learning more, in response (as a note, my background in college is a degree in engineering physics and that kind of physics topic isn't hard for me to quickly read and learn). Of course, to learn about God one should best learn from the best teacher, and the general reputation is that Jesus is the one who knows the most about God, so that's the place to start regarding learning more about God, or at least what the master Teacher knew about doing surprising things, learning what he said in detail.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

If someone came to you and told you that God exists and you should follow
some instructions in order to be safe in the afterlife, and if it happened that you
asked him for a proof for God's existence and he showed you one such as
healing a blind man and letting him to see.

Will you believe that God exists if you know that the miracle was real or you'll still disbelieve?

No, it is not enough to show this miracle. But, if I investigate about this person, and found that he is a righteous and upright person, has wisdom above regular human, and has great teachings for betterment, and is also willing to sacrifice his own life for humanity, then I believe him. But if someone just shows miracles, and is not righteous and does not have good teachings, then I don't believe him.

 

[viole]

If someone came to you and told you that God exists and you should follow
some instructions in order to be safe in the afterlife, and if it happened that you
asked him for a proof for God's existence and he showed you one such as
healing a blind man and letting him to see.

Will you believe that God exists if you know that the miracle was real or you'll still disbelieve?

blind man? Nope, that is boring. but having an amputee growing a new arm might impress me.

so, if the great Juju at the bottom of the sea would grow a new arm to an amputee, I might consider.

ciao

- viole