If the Jewish Messiah has already come….

[djhwoodwerks]

The visible signs are not miracles in this time period for the reasons Paul outlined in 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 wher he says....
"But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. 9 For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, 10 but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child. 12 For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known. 13 Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love."

What does 1 Corinthians 13: 8 mean when it says prophecies will fail?

 

[Dawnofhope]

I think the Roman occupation of Israel gave momentum to the imminent arrival of the Messiah during the first century. In other words the very presence of the Romans is responsible for the Gospels, plus the destruction of the Temple.

Thank you. What do you think were key prophecies He fulfilled? In particular what do think Jesus meant during the Olivet disourse when He referred to the book of Daniel and the abomination that causes desolation?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Its ironic that these efforts have caused such division within the Church. It is rare that an ultra conservative Catholic would agree with the Church's teaching that the Jews are saved, their covenant with God still in effect, based in part on the covenant with Abraham which is absolute, irrevocable, eternal. Justice Scalia, being the Catholic conservative he was, opposed the Church's position on the death penalty. As for fulfillment, Jesus did bring the God of the Jews to the nations. But if one considers man's inhumanity to man, nothing seems to have changed.

I work at a Christian medical centre at the invitation of one of the other Christian doctors. I have been there 5 years now. I am a Baha'i and the only person working at the centre of is of a different Faith. I could sense the reluctance of the Board of Trustees early on and within 6 months they asked me to leave. A patient had asked if I would pray with him. I explained I was happy to do that and as a Baha'i I believed in the same God he did as a Christian. No problem for the patient but when the board heard of this there was consternation. What would happen if Adrian had conversations with patients on spiritual matters and where would that leave. They thought it did not fit the Christian vision.

Every Monday Morning I attended and provided medical services to those most in need at no cost to the patient and I volunteered my services for free. My Christian colleague and I met with the board chairman and clinical director but after an hour we reached an impasse. Perhaps I could go start a Baha'i medical centre was the suggestion. I resolved to leave quietly and graciously. The only problem was that all the people I actually worked with wanted me to stay and then there was this Catholic priest that joined us for prayer every Monday morning. He ran the biggest Catholic congregation in town and he was outraged to hear I had been asked to leave. He immediately wrote to the Board and stated that however it was framed in regards to the gospel the decision to have me leave because I was a Baha'i was not even remotely inspired by the Gospels. Later that day the board members had backed down and said it was all a misunderstanding.

The Board was Baptist. The priest didn't need to stand up for me. For the sake of keeping unity between the Catholic and Baptist he could have let it slide and i would have been cast aside. But like the Good Samaritan he stood up for justice as he saw it and I shall never forget it.

It is excellent you engage with Jews who have produced some the greatest scientists, thinkers, artists and the like. None of us should imagine for one moment another is not saved for that is only for God to judge.

Looks whose rambling now

 

[psychoslice]

Maybe there is no Jesus, have you ever thought of that ?.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Maybe there is no Jesus, have you ever thought of that ?.

Not only have I thought it, I once believed it. Being from a scientific background and after a period of unsuccessfully searching for the answer, concluded that there probably was no God. I resisted any urge to pray and assumed in regards to meaning the material world was it. It led to the darkest time of my life.

I think its for each of us to read our own reality. For me a life of Faith brings out the best in me, and having none brings out the worst eventually. If having faith ultimately in yourself brings out the best in you then of course that is what you should do and no amount of reason would convince you otherwise.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Clearly the stoners had bad aim.

You sound like you were a Christian for a long time but became disaffected. You're very funny though. What was the turning point for you? Personal question I know and I'm sure you are comfortable either answering or telling me where to get off! I was a Christian but then became a Baha'i.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

You sound like you were a Christian for a long time but became disaffected. You're very funny though. What was the turning point for you? Personal question I know and I'm sure you are comfortable either answering or telling me where to get off! I was a Christian but then became a Baha'i.

I consider myself something like "post-Christian" now. Like it's grade school, but eventually you need to apply to higher or learning. In more biblical language, Jesus is the milk, but I don't think he qualifies as the "meat". The teen years, which saw my maternal great-grandmother die AND my parents divorce the same year, were hard on me. For awhile after my maternal grandfather's death, I finally stated that I no longer wished to call myself Christian. However, I've made some progress coping with his death, so I consider myself one, just ... "post", if that makes sense. It's like the difference between being a college student and being an alumnus. Even if you still feel "school spirit" and loyalty to the brand, the fact is, you graduated and life has moved on.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I consider myself something like "post-Christian" now. Like it's grade school, but eventually you need to apply to higher or learning. In more biblical language, Jesus is the milk, but I don't think he qualifies as the "meat". The teen years, which saw my maternal great-grandmother die AND my parents divorce the same year, were hard on me. For awhile after my maternal grandfather's death, I finally stated that I no longer wished to call myself Christian. However, I've made some progress coping with his death, so I consider myself one, just ... "post", if that makes sense. It's like the difference between being a college student and being an alumnus. Even if you still feel "school spirit" and loyalty to the brand, the fact is, you graduated and life has moved on.

What you are saying makes complete sense and thank you for sharing. Perhaps it is through our most difficult times we find what works for us and what doesn't and to find courage to embrace a new path. Sometimes that journey takes us to unexpected places that our family and friends would not understand. Although during my years of search I investigated Buddhism and Hinduism my knowledge is lacking. My wife's mother is from Japan and so we have visited many temples there.

To be a Baha'i is to rever the teachings of station and teachings Buddha and Krishna as Great luminaries of the Asian Continent. Although we are on the topic of the Jewish Messiah I wonder if there is something we can learn from these great religions too.

In the Bhagavad-Gita, Krishna expresses Himself ; " Know thou t his, O Prince, that whenever the world declineth in virtue and righteousness, and vice and injustice mountthe throne - then come I, the Lord, and revisit My world in visible form, and mingle as a man with men, and by My influence and teachings do I destroy the evil and injustice, and reestablish virtue and righteousness, many times have I thus appeared; many times hereafter shall I come again."
(Bhagavad-Gita, 4;7,8)

..'I am not the first Buddha Who came upon this earth, nor shall I be the last. In due time another Buddha will arise in the world, a Holy One, a supremely enlightened One, endowed with wisdom in conduct, auspicious knowing the universe, an incomparable leader of men, a Master of angels and mortals. He will reveal to you the same eternal truths which I have taught you. He will preach to you His religion, glorious in its origin, glorious at the climax and glorious at the goal, in spirit and in the letter. He will proclaim a religious life, wholly perfect and pure, such as I now proclaim.' His disciples will number many thousands, while Mine number many hundreds.'
Metteyya

Perhaps for those with eyes to see and ears to hear we need to look beyond the bounds of our cultural norms. These writings seem to refer to all the founders of the great religious faiths.

 

[omega2xx]

If the Jewish Messiah has already come why hasn’t he made himself known? If the Messiah has made himself known, please explain how. Nowhere in Jewish or Christian scripture does it say he will be known by proxy. What I mean by “proxy” is one who speaks for another.

How can one saying they are a Christian not understand that Jesus is the Messiah. We know this by all of the Messianic prophecies he fulfilled.

 

[Flankerl]

We know this by all of the Messianic prophecies he fulfilled.

So none.

 

[Tumah]

.הִשָּׁמְרוּ לָכֶם, פֶּן יִפְתֶּה לְבַבְכֶם; וְסַרְתֶּם, וַעֲבַדְתֶּם אֱלֹהִים אֲחֵרִים, וְהִשְׁתַּחֲוִיתֶם, לָהֶם

Its better than the last one!

 

[Muffled]

I don't believe they asked Him directly and He says this about it:
Lu 10:21 In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou didst hide these things from the wise and understanding, and didst reveal them unto babes: yea, Father; for so it was well-pleasing in thy sight.

 

[Muffled]

"Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven." (Matthew 16:17 )

I believe Jesus never told His apostles that He was the Messiah so that statement makes sense.

 

[Muffled]

Unless he's as white as the average Caucasian America, and speak American English American Christians would never accept him.
So appearing to them would accomplish nothing.

"what if God were one of us, just a stranger on the bus" lyrics from a song and theme of a TV show. If you met me a Caucasian, speaking English as a Christian would you know me?

 

[Flankerl]

Its better than the last one!

 

[roger1440]

How can one saying they are a Christian not understand that Jesus is the Messiah. We know this by all of the Messianic prophecies he fulfilled.


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Dumb it down a little for me. What prophecies did Jesus fulfill? Please provide some proof.

 

[omega2xx]

So none.

Since you have been taught Jesus was not the Messiah because He didn't fulfill some you think He should have, You ignore the ones He did fulfill.

If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I AM, there you may be also---Jn 14:3

 

[Akivah]

Maybe there is no Jesus, have you ever thought of that ?.

That's what I believe.

 

[omega2xx]

Dumb it down a little for me. What prophecies did Jesus fulfill? Please provide some proof.

The only p;roof is accepting what the Bible says.

He was born in Bethlehem---Micah 5:2

Ps 22:18 - Jn 19:14

Isa 53 is a perfect description of the crucifixion.

I belie that are more than 50, but if you don't accept those 3, you will not accept any others.

 

[roger1440]

The only p;roof is accepting what the Bible says.

He was born in Bethlehem---Micah 5:2

Ps 22:18 - Jn 19:14

Isa 53 is a perfect description of the crucifixion.

I belie that are more than 50, but if you don't accept those 3, you will not accept any others.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. That must be the guy, he was born in Bethlehem.