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Featured If the Jewish Messiah has already come….

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by roger1440, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    If the Jewish Messiah has already come why hasn’t he made himself known? If the Messiah has made himself known, please explain how. Nowhere in Jewish or Christian scripture does it say he will be known by proxy. What I mean by “proxy” is one who speaks for another.
     
  2. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita and Spiritualist
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    Maybe Jesus was the prophesized Messiah.
     
  3. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    If Jesus is the prophesied Messiah how is it no one seems to know unless they are told?
     
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  4. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita and Spiritualist
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    Why do you think we should know without being told?
     
  5. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    "Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven." (Matthew 16:17 )
     
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  6. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita and Spiritualist
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    I don't understand:confused:
     
  7. wizanda

    wizanda Hairy doesn't mean scary;beard doesn't mean weird

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    Because for the fulfillment of all prophecy, there are still things to happen before he can....

    The Messiah comes to reign after the destruction; yet obviously has come years in advance before it like Daniel said, where he was put to death, which causes the Abomination of Desolation, and the end of the daily sacrifice .i.e 2nd temple destruction.
    Yeshua was quite clear, fulfilling numerous chapters of the Tanakh by name.
    Yeshua wasn't the Messiah back then; he prophesied it in a future context, "that you will see the Messiah, the son of man at the right side of God."

    Jews expect all these prophecies fulfilled before the Messiah is here:
    Now some of those are misinterpretations; yet they're right on a lot of prophecies that must happen, before the world is only full of Godly people, including removing those who don't want Yeshua to reign over them. :innocent:
     
    #7 wizanda, Dec 11, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016
  8. Deeje

    Deeje Deeje

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    Its all about the big picture. [​IMG] Everything takes place in universal time, not in earth years. So from man's perspective, its all taking way too long to sort out this mess that Adam got us into. But when you look at it through the universal lens, you will see that it took over 4,000 years for God's Messiah to put in his first appearance. He was prophesied to come through the family line of Abraham's son Isaac, then through Jacob then through Jacob's 12 sons came the 12 tribes of Israel. Judah was the tribe that was to produce the Messiah. Abraham was born about 2,000 years after Adam, so we are talking about quite a few generations and lots of human history unfolding in the meantime. Another 2,000 years would pass before Jesus presented himself for baptism and three and a half years later to lay down his life amid much controversy.

    All of this was teaching us about God's expectations of his chosen people and their expectations of him. It shows us in a written record, warts and all, of how Israel was blessed when they obeyed their God and how they were punished (sometimes severely) when they disobeyed him. It also showed that God raised up individuals to speak for him and act as his representatives when delivering his judgments to his people.

    God chose Israel as his nation, not because they were any better than anyone else, but because they were the descendants of his "friend" Abraham. They willingly entered into a covenant with Abraham's God to become the only people on earth to be bound in a contract with their God to abide by his laws. Their reward for fulfilling their end of the bargain, was that they would become to God "a priesthood and a holy nation" in connection with the kingdom of the promised one.

    With the gradual unfolding of God's purpose concerning the Messiah and his kingdom, it was not revealed until after the baptism of Jesus Christ that the Messiah would be a "son of God" and that his kingdom would be in heaven, ruling over earthly subjects rather than being set up with a literal temple and priesthood on earth. (Revelation 21:2-4)

    Seeing as how many, many generations would come and go as the ages passed, the only hope that God held out to those who had passed away before the fulfillment of his promises was by means of a resurrection....a complete restoration to life on earth for the majority. (John 5:28-29)
    Jesus and his apostles demonstrated their ability to raise the dead by means of God's spirit....the most famous resurrection being Lazarus. (John 11:11-14)

    For a relatively small number of specially "chosen ones" resurrection for them was to be heavenly as 'kings and priests' to rule with Christ in his kingdom. (Revelation 20:6) These will be resurrected "first". But the majority will live on earth as God first purposed. (Isaiah 55:11)

    It was not until the final part of the days for this system of things that the whole world was to receive a "witness" and be required to make decisions about their future based on their chosen position. (Matthew 24:14)

    It has again been around 2,000 years since Jesus' first appearance, and people have been "told" about Jesus' return for the last 100 years, and we see as things are changing rapidly on this earth, that the end is not far away. (Matthew 24:3-14; 2 Tim 3:1-5)

    Just like the first century Christians, the messengers of the kingdom have been faithfully proclaiming the coming of God's kingdom and the wonderful prospects for the future that it will bring to faithful ones...but, as Jesus warned, relatively "few" would respond positively. (Matthew 24:37-39; 7:13-14; John 15:18-21)

    At this time of judgement, there are only "sheep" and "goats" in the world. Jesus is the judge and only he knows which is which. But we should all be examining ourselves to see if we are living up to the teachings of God's son. He will accept no excuses, just as God accepted no excuses from Israel for their failures. Their disobedience and failure to correct their course, cost them their place in the Kingdom. (Matthew 23:37-39)

    The sand in the hourglass is running out....[​IMG]
    ...now is the time to make a decision about where we stand in relation to the incoming kingdom. (Daniel 2:44)
    We are all on notice. [​IMG]
     
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  9. Sultan Of Swing

    Sultan Of Swing Well-Known Member

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    You can read the very words of God in the Scriptures, like reading the Gospel of John, and see for yourself. It doesn't have to be told by another, when God has said it Himself and can reveal it to you through His Word.
     
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  10. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    So the only way to know Jesus is the Messiah is by people peddling God and waving a book in their hand? So there is no visible signs at all?
     
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  11. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    Do you know what the word "proxy" means?
     
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  12. Sultan Of Swing

    Sultan Of Swing Well-Known Member

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    It's not proxy when it's the direct word of God that is living and active, sharper than any sword.
     
  13. Rival

    Rival Bat Noach
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    I think a better question would be: If the Messiah has already come, why hasn't he fulfilled any of the messianic prophecies? Cause if he had I'm pretty sure we'd notice him then.
     
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  14. Rival

    Rival Bat Noach
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    I'm not talking about Jesus I'm talking about the Messiah.
     
  15. Native

    Native Natural Philosopher

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    If I was Jesus and the prophesied Messiah, I certainly would have complained to my heavenly boss over his lack of supportance when it got bad.
     
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  16. wizanda

    wizanda Hairy doesn't mean scary;beard doesn't mean weird

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    There are numerous prophecies throughout the Tanakh, where only Yeshua could have fulfilled them, due to the historical timeline required....

    Most of the people waving a book about have it wrong in someway (please ask if you want me to be specific); which is why they go around bashing others with a book....

    Those who get the prophecies according to Yeshua have already been collected, and "put in the barn", most of what we see around us is the chaff, and tares for burning.

    Thus you won't want the visible signs prophesied; which is why I'm trying to turn it away at the gate, yet most don't realize i was sent to inform everyone. :(
    There are numerous PreMessianic age prophecies that have been fulfilled already, Habakkuk 2, Zechariah 11, Isaiah 53, Isaiah 28, Ezekiel 7, Isaiah 5, Isaiah 8, Zechariah 3, Daniel's prophecies.... etc....

    We could also go into the Pazand from Zoroastrianism, etc, where basically the person trying to bring Oneness to the world can not, due to evil forces, thus we're to remove them all first with a trap.

    The 'snare' is what is listed above, where many 'ravenous beings shall fall into the pit' because of it...It is a 'marvelous work' of scriptural engineering. ;)

    Since everything else that has been prophesied has already happened, we're only waiting for the Tribulation now, before a thousand years peace....According to what is written, and what i was told as a child.

    Yet personally always trying to see the good in people, so if everyone would help us turn it around, I'd try for the greater good of the many....

    Plus it would also show people are capable of following Oneness; yet doubt anyone will take this seriously. :innocent:
     
  17. DragonHawk1959

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    Unless he's as white as the average Caucasian America, and speak American English American Christians would never accept him.
    So appearing to them would accomplish nothing.
     
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  18. DragonHawk1959

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    The Bible says he will not return until the signs of the 7 seals have been fulfilled. Well the prophesies haven't been full filled. There have been no plagues, or natural disasters wiping out large parts of humanity.
    And the if the last Christians retreated to ar' Megido the ground forces arrayed against them would reduce the whole of the hill to rubble in under an hour.
     
  19. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

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    Oh man all that World Peace we've been enjoying the last ~2000 years. I am really digging it.





    But don't you worry it gets better!





    I personally haven't tried setting myself on fire but boy oh boy if it belongs to the messianic age I am sure it is HOT!

    And man how awesome it all was. They even send the Einsatzgruppen to also include us Jews to have some fun in this most awesome messianic age! WOOOHOOO!



    I'd now show some footage of what happened in Nanjing so that the Chinese also feel represented, but there isn't any. But don't worry guys, they also had a blast!


    Personally for me that was enough Messianic age for now. But if you feel you need more I hear that these IS fellas know how to party! They are really big on knives and fire. Oh and yeah they drowned this one guy. But I think it didn't really catch on.

    WOHOOO!



    Christianity/10
    Best messianic age ever!
     
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  20. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    He has. These are His Words.

    “THE Most Great Law is come, and the Ancient Beauty ruleth upon the throne of David.”

    “THE Breath hath been wafted, and the Breeze hath blown, and from Zion hath appeared that which was hidden, and from Jerusalem is heard the Voice of God, the One, the Incomparable, the Omniscient.”

    “This Day all the signs have appeared. A great City hath descended from heaven, and Zion trembleth and exulteth with joy at the Revelation of God, for it hath heard the Voice of God on every side.”

    Baha'u'llah