If the Jewish Messiah has already come….

[paarsurrey]

[/QUOTE]

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

I believe Isaiah was speaking to Jewish people even if they are not directly mentioned.

"I believe"
One is still not certain. Please present something of which one is certain.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

I believe Isaiah was speaking to Jewish people even if they are not directly mentioned.

Please qoute Torah correctly:

Yeshayahu- Isaiah - Chapter 9:6
6 To him who increases the authority, and for peace without end, on David's throne and on his kingdom, to establish it and to support it with justice and with righteousness; from now and to eternity, the zeal of the Lord of Hosts shall accomplish this.
Yeshayahu - Chapter 9
Please
Regards

 

[Dawnofhope]

You'll have to work that out on your own. I'm not trying to reach common ground with you. I'm telling you what the text says.

I do try to reach common ground with people. I avoid becoming offended and avoid offending. I often fall short. There is nothing to be gained from winning a debate if it results in ill feeling. There is no shame in being wrong, having humility, and learning. Is not the greatest challenge of our time for us all to build bridges of better understanding?

Thank you for the time you have taken to explain your faith to me. Please accept my apology if I have offended you. I've truly enjoyed the thought provoking discussions.

All the best

 

[Ben Avraham]

[quote If the Jewish Messiah has already come! [/quote]

Yes, he has. BTW, the concept of a Messiah to come was in the hearts of the peasant Jews who were left behind after the high and middle classes were removed by the Assyrias first and later by the Babylonians. Then, the Jews who remained behind were expected to cultivate the Land, since they offered the conquerors no danger of further insurrection. It was then that the concept originated as they would pray for the return of the Messiah who had been taken into exile, until he would eventually return; especially from Babylon because the period of the exile was of only 70 years.

 

[Muffled]

Please qoute Torah correctly:

Yeshayahu- Isaiah - Chapter 9:6
6 To him who increases the authority, and for peace without end, on David's throne and on his kingdom, to establish it and to support it with justice and with righteousness; from now and to eternity, the zeal of the Lord of Hosts shall accomplish this.
Yeshayahu - Chapter 9
Please
Regards

I believe you should expound on what makes your correct and mine not. I believe yours is self serving but I can't rule out that mine isn't.

 

[Muffled]

[quote If the Jewish Messiah has already come!

Yes, he has. BTW, the concept of a Messiah to come was in the hearts of the peasant Jews who were left behind after the high and middle classes were removed by the Assyrias first and later by the Babylonians. Then, the Jews who remained behind were expected to cultivate the Land, since they offered the conquerors no danger of further insurrection. It was then that the concept originated as they would pray for the return of the Messiah who had been taken into exile, until he would eventually return; especially from Babylon because the period of the exile was of only 70 years.[/QUOTE]

I believe that would make sense if it were Jews talking but I believe it was God talking.

 

[paarsurrey]

Yes, he has. BTW, the concept of a Messiah to come was in the hearts of the peasant Jews who were left behind after the high and middle classes were removed by the Assyrias first and later by the Babylonians. Then, the Jews who remained behind were expected to cultivate the Land, since they offered the conquerors no danger of further insurrection. It was then that the concept originated as they would pray for the return of the Messiah who had been taken into exile, until he would eventually return; especially from Babylon because the period of the exile was of only 70 years.

I believe that would make sense if it were Jews talking but I believe it was God talking.[/QUOTE]
"believe"
Pleas be certain.
Regards

 

[Ben Avraham]

Yes, he has. BTW, the concept of a Messiah to come was in the hearts of the peasant Jews who were left behind after the high and middle classes were removed by the Assyrias first and later by the Babylonians. Then, the Jews who remained behind were expected to cultivate the Land, since they offered the conquerors no danger of further insurrection. It was then that the concept originated as they would pray for the return of the Messiah who had been taken into exile, until he would eventually return; especially from Babylon because the period of the exile was of only 70 years.

I believe that would make sense if it were Jews talking but I believe it was God talking.[/QUOTE]

So, it makes sense because that's Ezra explaining the Scriptures to the Jews in Babylon. Ezra was the greatest of scribes in the History of Israel. He was the one who completed and prepared the Tanach for canonization. Evidence? The end of II Chronicles is the same as the beginning of his own book. It means that Ezra had to stop writing Chronicles on a hurry because he needed to start his own book.

 

[paarsurrey]

If the Jewish Messiah has already come….

Once he came by the name Jesus, and he has again come by the name Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Please
Regards

 

[Ben Avraham]

If the Jewish Messiah has already come….

Once he came by the name Jesus, and he has again come by the name Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Please
Regards

And when this Mirza Ahmad dies, another different one will come? See now why the claim of an individual Messiah does not make sense at all? He is born, lives his span of life and dies. The real Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37) Then, if you read Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One" aka Israel the Son of God if you read Exodus 4:22,23.

 

[paarsurrey]

And when this Mirza Ahmad dies, another different one will come? See now why the claim of an individual Messiah does not make sense at all? He is born, lives his span of life and dies. The real Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37) Then, if you read Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One" aka Israel the Son of God if you read Exodus 4:22,23.

As the prophecy has been truthfully fulfilled in Mirza Ghulam none other is going to come from the skies. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad said emphatically:

"Remember that no one will come from sky. Our all opponents who are still alive, they will all die and none of them will see Jesus son of Marry descending from sky. And then their remaining progeny which will stay, will die. And also none of them will see Jesus son of Marry descending from sky. Then progeny of progeny will die and they too will not see son of Marry descending from sky. Then God will put unrest in their hearts that time of victory of cross has vanished and world has come into another colour but son of Marry, Jesus, did not come from sky yet. Then the wise will be suddenly displeased with this belief and the third century from today will still not be completed that those who are waiting for Jesus, Muslims or Christians, will at once leave this false belief with despair and hopelessness. There will be one religion in the world and one leader. I have come to sow a seed. Thus this seed has been sown by my hand. It will grow and sprout and there is none who can stop it."
[Reference: ruhani khazin, vol, 20]
Ref: March 23, 1889 The Promised Messiah-the Mahdi has come - Khilafat Continues his Peace Mission.
Jesus died a natural death in Kashmir, India at the age of 120 years, those who die never come to this world again. Please
Regards

 

[Ben Avraham]

As the prophecy has been truthfully fulfilled in Mirza Ghulam none other is going to come from the skies. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad said emphatically:

"Remember that no one will come from sky. Our all opponents who are still alive, they will all die and none of them will see Jesus son of Marry descending from sky. And then their remaining progeny which will stay, will die. And also none of them will see Jesus son of Marry descending from sky. Then progeny of progeny will die and they too will not see son of Marry descending from sky. Then God will put unrest in their hearts that time of victory of cross has vanished and world has come into another colour but son of Marry, Jesus, did not come from sky yet. Then the wise will be suddenly displeased with this belief and the third century from today will still not be completed that those who are waiting for Jesus, Muslims or Christians, will at once leave this false belief with despair and hopelessness. There will be one religion in the world and one leader. I have come to sow a seed. Thus this seed has been sown by my hand. It will grow and sprout and there is none who can stop it."
[Reference: ruhani khazin, vol, 20]
Ref: March 23, 1889 The Promised Messiah-the Mahdi has come - Khilafat Continues his Peace Mission.
Jesus died a natural death in Kashmir, India at the age of 120 years, those who die never come to this world again. Please
Regards

Well my friend, I prefer my Messiah who will not die neither come from sky. The only humans coming from sky are the ones who went to sky aka the astronauts. That, I can prove to you, but you cannot prove anything of what you have said above..

 

[Muffled]

I believe that would make sense if it were Jews talking but I believe it was God talking.

"believe"
Pleas be certain.
Regards[/QUOTE]

I believe this site does not allow certainty only belief. The best I can do is say that I believe I am certain.

 

[Muffled]

I believe that would make sense if it were Jews talking but I believe it was God talking.

So, it makes sense because that's Ezra explaining the Scriptures to the Jews in Babylon. Ezra was the greatest of scribes in the History of Israel. He was the one who completed and prepared the Tanach for canonization. Evidence? The end of II Chronicles is the same as the beginning of his own book. It means that Ezra had to stop writing Chronicles on a hurry because he needed to start his own book.[/QUOTE]

I believe editing and preparing are not writing. Zondervan is responsible for the editing and preparation of Bibles but that does not make that publishing firm the author.

 

[Muffled]

If the Jewish Messiah has already come….

Once he came by the name Jesus, and he has again come by the name Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Please
Regards

I don't believe he is the one. No prophecies have been fulfilled. Not only that but his number, 471 is not correct. At least he isn't 666.