I want to give my future kids a Satanic Baptism

[lewisnotmiller]

I think you're missing the obvious if you think you aren't already baptizing them by rearing them. They imprint off of you. There is no escaping that unless you send them away for someone else to train. You want to get them a Christian nanny? Ok, then it makes sense; but you may as well baptize them Christian then. Buddhist nanny? Ok, then you may as well give them orange robes.

Yeah, so I'm not so sure about that.
I would have thought people who practice ceremonies see value in them, and not merely 'well, it's gonna happen anyway'.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Unless it's an institutional function like Catholicism, I really don't see the issue. The child isn't going to be expected to remain Satanist or counted as a Satanist until they make that decision; the ritual is purely for benefit of the parent's peace-of-mind. And as for raising a child religiously? If there's no harm being done (and I mean actual harm, not the typical criticism of the anti-theist), then what's the issue?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Yeah, so I'm not so sure about that.
I would have thought people who practice ceremonies see value in them, and not merely 'well, it's gonna happen anyway'.

I see your point, but that is not what I'm attempting to say. To clarify I'm just saying that parenting is already an indoctrination that cannot be avoided.

Although if my personal experience is any guide, I wish I hadn't gotten baptized as a child.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I see your point, but that is not what I'm attempting to say. To clarify I'm just saying that parenting is already an indoctrination that cannot be avoided.

Although if my personal experience is any guide, I wish I hadn't gotten baptized as a child.

Fair enough. I never quite get the 'parenting is indoctrination' thing, though I've heard it plenty of times from people. Basically I want kids to stop uncritically accept my beliefs as soon as they are able to. It's an important part of the process in terms of turning them into independent and fully functioning adults.

 

[RESOLUTION]

Oh, and that makes it true... I'm absolutely not going to take Pat Robertson’s word over actually studying the topic.

It wasn't Pat' word... they showed taped film information from China and the evidence.

No we don't.

We do because only good and evil exist and anything not good is evil so no fence to sit on in between. Anything false is of the devil.

Prove they're false.

They don't work and even pagans I know do not deny they do not believe that worshipping the created is actually helpful in anyway they just choose that as opposed to the religions in the world.

Do I really have to show worshipping tree gods or animals and idols are false?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

It wasn't Pat' word... they showed taped film information from China and the evidence.

In the same way that Ancient Aliens has video evidence that the pyramids were built by aliens? Sure.

We do because only good and evil exist and anything not good is evil so no fence to sit on in between. Anything false is of the devil.

Okay, so here's a challenge for you; name some Pagan gods that we worship, and then tell us why they're evil.

They don't work

Prove it.

Do I really have to show worshipping tree gods or animals and idols are false?

Given that we don't worship animals or idols, yes.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Do I really have to show worshipping tree gods or animals and idols are false?

Yes, you do. I see nothing wrong with those things.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Pagans those who worship false gods are not part of Gods people.

Don't worry. You still have time to repent and convert to Islam.

They don't work and even pagans I know do not deny they do not believe that worshipping the created is actually helpful in anyway they just choose that as opposed to the religions in the world.

Do you really expect us to believe that

1. You actually know Pagans;
2. They're religiously open with someone as prone to the judgementalism and thinly-veiled preaching that's on display on your posts?
3. You're not just making up fictitious Pagans and putting your arguments in their mouths?

 

[Quintessence]

Yes, you do. I see nothing wrong with those things.

I agree this would be interesting to see. But.... in it's own thread, with a new OP that isn't in a discussion-only area of the forums.

(Yeah, my not-so-subtle reminder about the purpose of Interfaith Discussion folks)

 

[RESOLUTION]

In the same way that Ancient Aliens has video evidence that the pyramids were built by aliens? Sure.

Same way they use fossils etc. You see when it comes to the stars the Chinese have the longest recorded history of the movement in the heavens the records of stars and comets etc.
Ancient aliens do not exist and the myths of the pyramids are beyond the alien conception.

Okay, so here's a challenge for you; name some Pagan gods that we worship, and then tell us why they're evil.

All gods are pagan outside YHWH because according to the bible all who do not belong to YHWH are pagan or gentiles.
Baal was such a god in that Baal was not one god but many and the worship of Baal was basically the worship of the male forces of nature.
Which included the worship of tree gods etc. So we know if only one true God then only those who follow a lie follow the person who created that lie.
Amongst humans anything not born of truth is a lie and is of the Father of all lies the devil.
Only Satan is the evil (god) of this world.

2 Corinthians 4:4
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

YHWH is the only God through history to have an historical record which shows his presence. The ONLY GOD who has revealed his presence.
Jesus Christ, has made him known and shown his power. None of the Baal followers be it present pagan or ancient pagan have ever encountered a god which actually does anything.

Prove it.

Jesus Christ did that and the history of the Jews. There are still to many Jews and Christians which out number any other faith or race.
GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has always done what he planned and what he said. No pagan god has.

Given that we don't worship animals or idols, yes.

An idol can take many forms... you don't have a pagan god no spirit gods no belief in the forces of nature which you make prayers to or cast spells in the name of?
So idols are not made of wood or metal formed in shapes of humans or animals. Why is a cow so sacred? You think wrong if you believe paganism is not about every other religion
and belief outside that of YHWH. Made you need to broaden your horizons as to the definition of a pagan.

The truth is, outside the belief of the Jews or Christians all other faiths and beliefs are classed as pagan because they do not believe in the only true God YHWH.
Hence all beliefs which deny the true God are false according to the bible especially in the teaching of the OT. What I find strange is the passing of the things foretold and still no one realises these things are coming to pass.

 

[RESOLUTION]

Yes, you do. I see nothing wrong with those things.

Go figure... only someone wanting to believe what they knowingly know to be false could not see the wrong in worshipping a cow or holding it so sacred that you let your child die before
killing the cow for food.

 

[RESOLUTION]

Don't worry. You still have time to repent and convert to Islam.

Islam do what they do because their god has done nothing so far. If they did not act, there god is not there to act.
So no repentance required. One God who has always acted and been present is YHWH. Seems you are not up to date with
present day atheist and believers. Both know that only YHWH has ever shown himself to be present.
How long has Islam been around?

Do you really expect us to believe that

1. You actually know Pagans;

1. I don't expect anything from you. It is a fact. We have a white witch in the family but their beliefs all come from the same place as any pagan belief from the same source.I know people who meet every year including go to pagan festivals.

1. They're religiously open with someone as prone to the judgementalism and thinly-veiled preaching that's on display on your threads?

A little like seed planting as the Devil did with Eve about God - your last remark. Being judgmental is about condemning for the sake of dislike. But educated and intelligent people
know that people with different beliefs will disagree and that is not being judgmental but a fact that they cannot be in agreement . However I show the reason and the evidence for my belief.
I do not show personal judgement or even condemnation just why the two beliefs cannot mutually exist. I do not need to attack and I am not being judgmental.
But you really need to reflect on your own post because your content shows not support for your beliefs if a pagan or that you have any real beliefs but want to attack just being judgmental.

1. You're not just making up fictitious Pagans and putting your arguments in their mouths?

Your last sentence makes absolutely no sense following on from your last remark. If you check the dictionary you will get a handle on the definition of pagans and paganism.
It will stop you being judgmental and open your eyes to what it means to the Jewish and Christian religions.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

You missed Quin's post, huh?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Islam do what they do because their god has done nothing so far. If they did not act, there god is not there to act.
So no repentance required. One God who has always acted and been present is YHWH. Seems you are not up to date with
present day atheist and believers. Both know that only YHWH has ever shown himself to be present.
How long has Islam been around?

The point I was making that aside from a few arguments over the divinity of Jesus, Islam makes many claims which are very similar to those made by Christianity:

• Our faith is the one true religion;
• Our book was divinely inspired or written personally by God;
• We worship the god of Abraham;
• Our religion is the final revelation until Judgement Day;
• If you don't believe as we do then you're worshipping Satan/Iblis;
• We have access to divinely-inspired morality and you don't;

If I have to pick one religion why should it be yours and not Islam? That's a rhetorical question - I don't plan to choose either and I know you won't be able to answer it without falling back on dogma with no meaning to anybody not in your echo chamber.

1. I don't expect anything from you. It is a fact. We have a white witch in the family but their beliefs all come from the same place as any pagan belief from the same source.I know people who meet every year including go to pagan festivals.

As if you're in a position to tell Pagans where our beliefs come from. This is one of the things that really annoys me about some Abrahamic believers: you like to pontificate and prate that you know our religions better than we do - as if you're actually better read on books that aren't your holy text than the rest of us are; or you think that you have access to some divine wisdom that actually proves our beliefs are wrong.

A little like seed planting as the Devil did with Eve about God - your last remark.

Wait, did you think I was being subtle?

Being judgmental is about condemning for the sake of dislike.

Which is what I'm convinced you're doing. Your religion teaches you to fear that which is different - i.e. it's of the Devil. This is why so many Christians take the time to condemn other religions that they know next to nothing about.

But educated and intelligent people know that people with different beliefs will disagree and that is not being judgmental but a fact that they cannot be in agreement.

Oh I appreciate that we won't agree on matters religious - the difference is I disagree with you because I've had the opportunity to see things from both the Christian and the non-Christian side of things. You disagree with me because your half-plagiarised holy book tells you to.

However I show the reason and the evidence for my belief.

Ha ha ha, evidence? Where? All I've seen you do is quote Bible verses - that's not evidence to the rest of us as we aren't caught up in your echo chamber.

I do not show personal judgement or even condemnation just why the two beliefs cannot mutually exist.

So you aren't capable of articulating how you feel about something without being told how to feel about it? Hmm.

I do not need to attack

Yet you do so anyway.

and I am not being judgmental.

Telling someone else their beliefs are false is making a judgement call. Telling someone else their beliefs are evil or rooted in evil simply because they're different to yours is being judgemental.

But you really need to reflect on your own post because your content shows not support for your beliefs if a pagan

Of the two of us, I am not the one engaging in flashy displays of self-righteously condemning other belief systems to make myself seem more pious. And can you make an argument that goes intellectually beyond shovelling what I say to you back at me like snow from a driveway?

Your use of small 'p' paganism is also being extremely judgemental - as the definition implies 'a godless heathen delighting in hedonism and sensual pleasures' - when you know next to nothing about me beyond my religious label.

or that you have any real beliefs but want to attack just being judgmental.

Implying that someone doesn't have "any real beliefs" is being judgemental. What was that you were saying earlier? "I am not being judgemental"? Bull****, says I.

Your last sentence makes absolutely no sense following on from your last remark. If you check the dictionary you will get a handle on the definition of pagans and paganism.

I know the dictionary definition of 'paganism'. What of it? Abrahamics aren't controlling the narrative any more - we Pagans (notice the capitalised 'P' as it's being used as the start of a proper noun?) can define ourselves.

It will stop you being judgmental

You have no right to accuse anyone else of being judgemental. Remove the beam from thine own eye first.

and open your eyes to what it means to the Jewish and Christian religions.

How you define the rest of us means little outside of your own religious circles. Remember though, Muslims define you similarly. Not nice, is it?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

@Quintessence would we be able to move this thread, or would starting a new one be more prudent?

 

[VioletVortex]

Unless you can start with the Premise that the Christian faith is Jewish in that they believe in the true Messiah and that the roots are in Judaism then really you are just barking up the wrong tree.
Paganism has it's basis in the root of Satan as does all false religions. Age of it, matters not and neither does misuse of the bible or any scriptures for that matter.
Pagans those who worship false gods are not part of Gods people. When you can bring an argument based exactly on what the OT is teaching then let me know.
Right now we have broken eggs which have no shape or purpose.

No. Abrahamism has a tendency to demonize the gods of every other religion it comes in contact with. Most of the Demons in Abrahamism are in fact either Pagan or animist deities. The case is also true for Satan.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

No. Abrahamism has a tendency to demonize the gods of every other religion it comes in contact with. Most of the Demons in Abrahamism are in fact either Pagan or animist deities. The case is also true for Satan.

Christianity: "Your gods are false. They're actually devils sent by Satan to lead mankind to ruin."

Also Christianity: "Your gods are really saints sent by the One True God to help point mankind in the right direction."

 

[RESOLUTION]

The point I was making that aside from a few arguments over the divinity of Jesus, Islam makes many claims which are very similar to those made by Christianity:

• Our faith is the one true religion;
• Our book was divinely inspired or written personally by God;
• We worship the god of Abraham;
• Our religion is the final revelation until Judgement Day;
• If you don't believe as we do then you're worshipping Satan/Iblis;
• We have access to divinely-inspired morality and you don't;

You should never quote what you do not understand. If Islam or paganism were the only true religions why don't they work?

If I have to pick one religion why should it be yours and not Islam? That's a rhetorical question - I don't plan to choose either and I know you won't be able to answer it without falling back on dogma with no meaning to anybody not in your echo chamber.




As if you're in a position to tell Pagans where our beliefs come from. This is one of the things that really annoys me about some Abrahamic believers: you like to pontificate and prate that you know our religions better than we do - as if you're actually better read on books that aren't your holy text than the rest of us are; or you think that you have access to some divine wisdom that actually proves our beliefs are wrong.
Wait, did you think I was being subtle?

Which is what I'm convinced you're doing. Your religion teaches you to fear that which is different - i.e. it's of the Devil. This is why so many Christians take the time to condemn other religions that they know next to nothing about.
Oh I appreciate that we won't agree on matters religious - the difference is I disagree with you because I've had the opportunity to see things from both the Christian and the non-Christian side of things. You disagree with me because your half-plagiarised holy book tells you to.

Ha ha ha, evidence? Where? All I've seen you do is quote Bible verses - that's not evidence to the rest of us as we aren't caught up in your echo chamber.

So you aren't capable of articulating how you feel about something without being told how to feel about it? Hmm.

Yet you do so anyway.

Telling someone else their beliefs are false is making a judgement call. Telling someone else their beliefs are evil or rooted in evil simply because they're different to yours is being judgemental.

Of the two of us, I am not the one engaging in flashy displays of self-righteously condemning other belief systems to make myself seem more pious. And can you make an argument that goes intellectually beyond shovelling what I say to you back at me like snow from a driveway?

Your use of small 'p' paganism is also being extremely judgemental - as the definition implies 'a godless heathen delighting in hedonism and sensual pleasures' - when you know next to nothing about me beyond my religious label.

Implying that someone doesn't have "any real beliefs" is being judgemental. What was that you were saying earlier? "I am not being judgemental"? Bull****, says I.

I know the dictionary definition of 'paganism'. What of it? Abrahamics aren't controlling the narrative any more - we Pagans (notice the capitalised 'P' as it's being used as the start of a proper noun?) can define ourselves.

You have no right to accuse anyone else of being judgemental. Remove the beam from thine own eye first.

How you define the rest of us means little outside of your own religious circles. Remember though, Muslims define you similarly. Not nice, is it?

It isn't a faith attached or derived from the one true religion.


God never sent angels to Mahomet. In fact the one core truth of the the old testament and the New Testament
is the word of God was always given to man through the Prophets by the Power of the Holy Spirit.
A fatal flaw which both Joseph Smith and Mahomet made when creating a religion which did not base itself
in the truth from God. We can see why these religions are false. We can see that the Holy Spirit was the
person who gives the word to man from God. Nothing divine about the Koran or the book of Mormon.

No Islam does not worship the God of Abraham because it goes beyond the teachings of both covenants.
God plainly told Abraham that his covenant would be with ISAAC ONLY.
Ishmael was blessed by God but he was not chosen by God.

A religion that holds no truth is like a tree without roots when real testing comes it will fall over.
Christ was the final revelation the culmination of the promises of God to Abraham, Isaac,Jacob and Moses.
To the people of Israel born of Issacs line.

Light and darkness cannot be in the same place. Why has your God done nothing in your religion?
We see in the Old Covenants that God acted with both Abraham and the descendants of Isaac. We see Jesus
and his followers performing the works of God and showing the promises of YHWH to be true, Why doesn't
the followers of your faith have anything to show from God.
Satan doesn't do good things. What works do the followers of Islam produce?

Morality... is your morality any more or less than that of any other religion?
What good does it do a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?
You mean obey manmade rules and do not follow the truth.
Abraham married his sister but God did not credit righteousness to him by what he did or said.
He credited righteousness to him because he believed what God told him.
And you do not believe what God told Abraham about Isaac hence you follow a different religion and a
different religion and a different God. The descendants of Abraham believe what God told Abraham about
his Son Isaac. You do not.
So whether moral not only the truth saves.


One Religion? There is your mistake... The belief is ONE GOD YHWH and he does not change his mind
about whom he choses and whom he blesses. Truth is clear path when the God is thee God of Truth.

Why would I want to, or need to tell anyoen where their beliefs come from. As you can see I know who my God
is and I know why he is my God. The Only True God who is faithful and Just and whom he made known through
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses. The Prophets and Jesus Christ. You do not understand either religion do
you neither Jew or Christian. Both have Covenants which when followed bring the baptism of Gods Spirit.
King David an Example and Jesus Christ an example. It isn't merely a belief is a living truth and God
who made himself known.


I believe you are learning the hard way that you have nothing which measures up to Gods truth given
to man.



Wrong... The religion of Jew and Christian, teaches us there is one God and he is God of the Jew and
Christian. The god of Islam is no match and has nothing in common with YHWH. They are opposites.




Well it is a pity you cannot ask you god about it. Whereas my God has told us distinctly what his plans
are from beginning to end. Guess yours is still keeping his lips sealed about that one.


Well when it comes to evidence... you have not even searched and acted on what YHWH has taught us. Had you
done you would see why Gods word is evidence. As they say, " You should never judge a book by it's cover"
Would be better to say nothing than show the forum you have made a statement without having read the books
you are commenting on.

 

[RESOLUTION]

No. Abrahamism has a tendency to demonize the gods of every other religion it comes in contact with. Most of the Demons in Abrahamism are in fact either Pagan or animist deities. The case is also true for Satan.

Your confusing yourself. Try studying the word of God and try studying the old books and how other religions latched on and
changed beliefs, including paganism to add a bit of the mystery of Christianity and Judaism.

 

[Serpent Child]

I don't even know what y'all are talking about anymore smh this just turned out into a big argument.