I am Israel

[Mr Spinkles]

A "one-state solution" is just another way of eliminating Israel. Either there would be a demand up-front to change the name of the state, to change its flag, and to eliminate its character as the Jewish State, or in a relatively short time, Palestinian population growth would assure them numerical hegemony, and the political ability to do all of those things by taking over the Knesset from within. Either way, the Jews get screwed, and end up without a homeland.

No, if there is a solution to be had, it involves there being a Jewish State of Israel, and a Palestinian State, and most likely, some nice safe fences between the two.

Thank you for neatly summarizing the Israeli position. Now please explain this to rakhel.

 

[Levite]

Thank you for neatly summarizing the Israeli position. Now please explain this to rakhel.

I presume that Rakhel is familiar with the position.

My guess is that what Rakhel may be referring to is one of a couple of incidents. The first, which is what I would've assumed, are several occasions wherein certain groups of Israeli Arabs (permanently living within Israel, but lacking formal Israeli citizenship) were offered Israeli citizenship, and refused on the basis that they were "Palestinians" and did not recognize Israel's right to grant them citizenship. Or perhaps she refers to a short-lived drive to offer Palestinians Israeli citizenship during the early days of the settler movement in the 1970s, which settler activists proposed as a means to facilitate annexation of the territories. Whether the idea was good or bad, it was deeply unsuccessful, and only went on for a few months before the government washed their hands of it.

Although if I am wrong about what she meant, I look forward to her correction.

 

[Bismillah]

Ah no. I am still looking for rakhel to show me when Palestinians are offered citizenship because that claim is a complete lie.

Like I said Israel isn't interested in peace, it's pretty damned obvious.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Ah no. I am still looking for rakhel to show me when Palestinians are offered citizenship because that claim is a complete lie.

Like I said Israel isn't interested in peace, it's pretty damned obvious.

And Hamas/PA are?

 

[xkatz]

The essential arguments of this thread,

-Israelis are a bunch of oppressive, genocidal poo-poo heads
-Arabs are a bunch of oppressive, genocidal poo-poo heads

So, which one is it people!?

 

[Bismillah]

And Hamas/PA are?

Your statement is utterly hilarious that you group Hamas and Fatah together.

Pretty sure Fatah has been pursuing peace for the last decade, or how many state sponsered acts of terrorism have you seen? Their security forces are praised by the IDF every time Al-Aqsa launches a round of mortors. Or have they hijacked another plane this week?

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Your statement is utterly hilarious that you group Hamas and Fatah together.

Pretty sure Fatah has been pursuing peace for the last decade, or how many state sponsered acts of terrorism have you seen? Their security forces are praised by the IDF every time Al-Aqsa launches a round of mortors. Or have they hijacked another plane this week?

Yea Im sure they are all for peace when Arafat was giving American money to Hamas.

 

[Bismillah]

Yea Im sure they are all for peace when Arafat was giving American money to Hamas.

Ok last decade because the one before that pretty sure they were bombing planes. So tell me why for 10 more years colonies have been built on the West Bank.

In fact throw in the link about what you are talking about.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Ok last decade because the one before that pretty sure they were bombing planes. So tell me why for 10 more years colonies have been built on the West Bank.

In fact throw in the link about what you are talking about.

Well, I am unable to locate the source I read it in, so I will retract that statement until I am able to. I think that is only fair. The article was posted on this site at one point, but I will not backup that statement without providing you proof.


However, it was supposedly revealed last year that Arafat was responsible for the "2nd Intifada". The link is below. There are several articles about it, but I'm only posting the one. You can find the others on google.

Arafat ordered Hamas attacks against Israel in 2000


Take it for what you will. I figure you will dismiss it, seeing it is posted on a Jewish news site, although the article was written by a Israeli Arab.



Lets also remember my stance on this issue, which I have stated several times. I am of the opinion that both sides share in the blame for all the bloodshed. You cannot blame one side without blaming the other. The only reason I quoted your post is because you continue to condemn the Jews without so much as acknowledging Hamas or the PA's part in it.

 

[Rakhel]

I presume that Rakhel is familiar with the position.

My guess is that what Rakhel may be referring to is one of a couple of incidents. The first, which is what I would've assumed, are several occasions wherein certain groups of Israeli Arabs (permanently living within Israel, but lacking formal Israeli citizenship) were offered Israeli citizenship, and refused on the basis that they were "Palestinians" and did not recognize Israel's right to grant them citizenship. Or perhaps she refers to a short-lived drive to offer Palestinians Israeli citizenship during the early days of the settler movement in the 1970s, which settler activists proposed as a means to facilitate annexation of the territories. Whether the idea was good or bad, it was deeply unsuccessful, and only went on for a few months before the government washed their hands of it.

Although if I am wrong about what she meant, I look forward to her correction.

Your not. I am also referring to an inccident not too long ago where graduating high school Arabs were offered Israeli citizenship. There was also a bill proposed just shortly after Olmert took office to stem off the idea of a two state solution. The UNRWA and Jordan both commended the idea because it would effectively rid Israel of Palestinians by making everyone Israeli.

The problem is, that my source is INN and most people find them less reliable than Wiki(which anyone can edit, so I don't see how it holds more water.)

 

[Bismillah]

Well, I am unable to locate the source I read it in, so I will retract that statement until I am able to. I think that is only fair. The article was posted on this site at one point, but I will not backup that statement without providing you proof.

Ok.

However, it was supposedly revealed last year that Arafat was responsible for the "2nd Intifada". The link is below. There are several articles about it, but I'm only posting the one. You can find the others on google.

Ok but let me remind you "Ok last decade because the one before that pretty sure they were bombing planes. So tell me why for 10 more years colonies have been built on the West Bank.".

Can you tell me what has happened since Arafat's death? I am focusing on the present state of the conflict and why Israel encourages and funds colonies in the West Bank, can you tell me why it is justified?

The only reason I quoted your post is because you continue to condemn the Jews without so much as acknowledging Hamas or the PA's part in it.

First there is a difference between Jews and Israelis. Second I am not ignoring Hamas's part in it, but I am focusing on the West Bank which indeed is separate from Hamas in that scope. Do you disagree?

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Can you tell me what has happened since Arafat's death? I am focusing on the present state of the conflict and why Israel encourages and funds colonies in the West Bank, can you tell me why it is justified?

As I stated, Israel is not without their share of responsibility in this cluster****. However, being as I am not there experiencing it, and I am naturally suspicious of the media, I cannot form a qualified opinion on it.

First there is a difference between Jews and Israelis. Second I am not ignoring Hamas's part in it, but I am focusing on the West Bank which indeed is separate from Hamas in that scope. Do you disagree?

Well, considering that some 75% of Israel is Jewish, I think it would be safe to say that there is little difference between Israeli's and Jews...minus the 20 or so percent that are Israeli arabs.

As far as the West bank is concerned, being controled mostly by the IDF, Hamas doesn;t factor in there gov't wise.

 

[Bismillah]

However, being as I am not there experiencing it, and I am naturally suspicious of the media, I cannot form a qualified opinion on it.

Being suspicious is one thing, can you please tell me why it is ok for illegal colonies to be expanded and created in the West Bank? Especially considering that once a colony hits a certain threshold accordingly to the Israeli position it MUST be annexed. Don't you see this as nothing but a huge obstacle to peace?

Well, considering that some 75% of Israel is Jewish, I think it would be safe to say that there is little difference between Israeli's and Jews...minus the 20 or so percent that are Israeli arabs.

Ok...if we were talking about whether Israel is Jewish. Jews live across the globe and cannot be condensed into a label so simplistic as Israeli...

As far as the West bank is concerned, being controled mostly by the IDF, Hamas doesn;t factor in there gov't wise.

Then that is why I am not talking about Hamas in this situation, glad you understand.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Being suspicious is one thing, can you please tell me why it is ok for illegal colonies to be expanded and created in the West Bank? Especially considering that once a colony hits a certain threshold accordingly to the Israeli position it MUST be annexed. Don't you see this as nothing but a huge obstacle to peace?

I think anything that does not point in the direction of peace is an obstacle. Violence occurs on both sides, and is perpetrated by both sides. Until that is resolved, peace is impossible IMO.

Ok...if we were talking about whether Israel is Jewish. Jews live across the globe and cannot be condensed into a label so simplistic as Israeli...

But were not talking about Jews that live in diaspora, the discussion is about Israel and most of Israel is Jewish. It seems like were splitting hairs here.

Then that is why I am not talking about Hamas in this situation, glad you understand.

Indeed. Now if we expand outside of the W.B., then obviously Hamas becomes a huge factor.

 

[Bismillah]

I think anything that does not point in the direction of peace is an obstacle. Violence occurs on both sides, and is perpetrated by both sides. Until that is resolved, peace is impossible IMO.

Could you show me how Abbass backs violence? Thanks.

But were not talking about Jews that live in diaspora, the discussion is about Israel and most of Israel is Jewish. It seems like were splitting hairs here.

Ok.

Indeed. Now if we expand outside of the W.B., then obviously Hamas becomes a huge factor.

I agree.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

No, if there is a solution to be had, it involves there being a Jewish State of Israel, and a Palestinian State, and most likely, some nice safe fences between the two.

There already exists a Palestinian Arab state. It's named Jordan.

 

[Rakhel]

Jordan doesn't want the Palestinians either. That is why they revoked their citizenship.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

Jordan doesn't want the Palestinians either. That is why they revoked their citizenship.

I don't see how that's Israel's problem. If the people had their citizenships revoked, they need to take that up with the government that revoked them.

 

[Bismillah]

Jordan doesn't want the Palestinians either. That is why they revoked their citizenship.

Sorry, no. Palestinians are a huge part of Jordanian demographics.

Give Jordan the West Bank and they'll give Palestinians citizenship.

 

[Vendetta]

Yosi, Rahkel, Levite

I have a question. Is it true Israeli Arabs suffer from discrimination within Israel?