How to force gun control in US

[Curious George]

I assume that everyone is honest, but some are just less organized in their
thoughts than others. Sometimes what might seem like dishonesty is really
just the intellectual equivalent of trying to fit a round peg into a square hole.
(I have caught a couple posters lying, but not in these gun control threads.)

Interesting.

I find that people in the gun control threads are quick to throw up data that is designed to manipulate.

I am not sure whether it is intentional or not. I wouldn't qualify it as lying but, I think that gun control threads often hold a strong degree of intellectual dishonesty.

 

[Quetzal]

Automatic weapons have been banned since Al Capone days.

I knew that part, I was referring to what you said about the bump stocks.

 

[Quetzal]

Not helping your case. It seems you simply want to ban something (which won't help in the long run).

Statistics disagree with you. UK and Australia has decreased in homicides and gun violence after their near ban on guns.

Don't care.

I don't understand this exchange at all. Why did you try to claim that banning something won't help in the long run, in the face of data that says otherwise? I wish my graduate professors would accept that.

 

[BSM1]

Statistics disagree with you. UK and Australia has decreased in homicides and gun violence after their near ban on guns.

That's the point. The second amendment is the root of our issues because it prevents us from implementing what has worked for other countries.

Mind you that these other countries have not had recent history of a forceful government. They're doing things right on both fronts while we continue to do the wrong things as gun violence stays the same or increases.

Opinion.

Exactly the response of many of the gun advocates.

And this is why we will continue to have this issue.

They deny the reality of the situation.

Thank you for proving my original point.

I appreciate that you were quick and especially honest.

I didn't have to go through hoops and bounds to get you to admit that statistics and data didn't matter to you. You didn't try to subvert or obfuscate the data either.

You've been the most honest conversation I've had with a gun advocate outside of @Revoltingest.

Honestly, I do appreciate the immediate honest response.

Here the real problem. Our rights to keep and bare arms granted by the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States has been legally upheld by our highest court of law. Now whether you approve or not is irrelevant. If you don't like the law, work to change it; that is your right. Until and if the amendment is change then you have no right to confiscate my legally held weapon. As far as statistics are concerned, I could go back and cite instances where the government has taken the means of defense (no matter how small) out of the hands of it's citizenry which to some of the most horrendous massacres in history.

 

[BSM1]

I don't understand this exchange at all. Why did you try to claim that banning something won't help in the long run, in the face of data that says otherwise? I wish my graduate professors would accept that.

Please see my above post.

 

[BSM1]

I knew that part, I was referring to what you said about the bump stocks.

Even I would be wary of someone wanting a bump stock for day to day use.

 

[Quetzal]

You could always move to a country to satisfy your political views. ;0)

Nobody's going to force gun control any more than prohibition was going to force people to stop drinking.

Why can't we at least give it a shot? At the very least, lift the ban on studying the topic by the CDC. I am really frustrated by the NRA echo chambers that insist that it won't work without at least considering the idea that it might. If banning AR-15's reduced school shooting casualties by 20%, would that be worth it?

 

[Quetzal]

Please see my above post.

Opps! Sorry I missed it. Thanks!

 

[Quetzal]

Here the real problem. Our rights to keep and bare arms granted by the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States has been legally upheld by our highest court of law. Now whether you approve or not is irrelevant. If you don't like the law, work to change it; that is your right. Until and if the amendment is change then you have no right to confiscate my legally held weapon.

Fair enough.

As far as statistics are concerned, I could go back and cite instances where the government has taken the means of defense (no matter how small) out of the hands of it's citizenry which to some of the most horrendous massacres in history.

This is an argument I will never support. Look, if the government really wanted to mess us up they would and no AR 15 would stop it. Bank accounts would be frozen, assets seized, gps tracked, etcetc. And if they wanted you dead? That is one drone strike from 5 miles away that you never saw coming. The original intent of the amendment is no longer applicable, in my opinion.

 

[BSM1]

Why can't we at least give it a shot? At the very least, lift the ban on studying the topic by the CDC. I am really frustrated by the NRA echo chambers that insist that it won't work without at least considering the idea that it might. If banning AR-15's reduced school shooting casualties by 20%, would that be worth it?

Columbine, VA Tech, et. al. No AR-15s. Check this:

Weapons used in mass shootings in the U.S. 1982-2017 | Statistic

Where will the banning stop?

 

[BSM1]

Fair enough.


This is an argument I will never support. Look, if the government really wanted to mess us up they would and no AR 15 would stop it. Bank accounts would be frozen, assets seized, gps tracked, etcetc. And if they wanted you dead? That is one drone strike from 5 miles away that you never saw coming. The original intent of the amendment is no longer applicable, in my opinion.

Granted, but I want the chance to get at least one shot in.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

The simple answer is to get the guns out of people that aren't committed to the safety of the public.

The problem is you don't know what my intent is whether I purchase a gun for my safety or to commit a crime. The problem is that you don't know if I am on medication or not on medication. The problem is people have civil liberties.

The premise of this thread is flawed. You cannot force policies on everyone because of a tragedy unless you have the science and statistics to back you up.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Nah 5,000 law abiding black men will do the trick

Mulford Act - Wikipedia

 

[Quetzal]

Columbine, VA Tech, et. al. No AR-15s.

Sure but I can come right back with a list of my own that did use them. They are easily obtained, affordable, and exceptionally good at killing large groups of people. Tell me why a civilian needs this?

Where will the banning stop?

Slippery slope does not apply here since we are discussing a single instance. I am not entertaining otherwise.

 

[Revoltingest]

I find that people in the gun control threads are quick to throw up data that is designed to manipulate.

Or perhaps they believe their data make their argument for them?
"Manipulate" connotes disingenuous intent.
I don't assume that.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Why can't we at least give it a shot? At the very least, lift the ban on studying the topic by the CDC. I am really frustrated by the NRA echo chambers that insist that it won't work without at least considering the idea that it might. If banning AR-15's reduced school shooting casualties by 20%, would that be worth it?

It's an unrealistic and knee jerk "solution".

Keep in mind guns have been around for the entirety of US history. Hell my school had a Rifle Club. Never had these type of issues before rise to the extent that they are now.

One would think in hindsight that this would tell people it's clearly not guns that are the cause, it's more along the lines in addressing how the present generation has gotten to be so screwed up and not right in the head that people are screaming from the rooftops to do something about it.

I think people need to look in the right direction and examine how people are being taught and raised up in society because if you ban guns you're going to need to ban knives and paper clips and pencils and pens.......

 

[Quetzal]

One would think in hindsight that this would tell people it's clearly not guns that are the cause

Every statistical analysis of a country outside of the US says you are wrong.

it's more along the lines in addressing how the present generation has gotten to be so screwed up and not right in the head that people are screaming from the rooftops to do something about it.

Oh for crying out loud, passing the buck to an entire generation. Give me a break.

 

[Revoltingest]

Why can't we at least give it a shot? At the very least, lift the ban on studying the topic by the CDC. I am really frustrated by the NRA echo chambers that insist that it won't work without at least considering the idea that it might. If banning AR-15's reduced school shooting casualties by 20%, would that be worth it?

This reminds me of something in the news lately.
Kids spending much time on phones & the internet are possibly causing their suffering a big
increase in mental health problems. If we could censor this....say by limiting their time on
such activities, or censoring the kinds of things they can see (extreme political views, racism,
sexism), this too could greatly reduce violence. When is a right worth losing for the greater
good? I know this isn't easily answered....I'm just offering a perspective on balancing rights
against one another.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Then you would want the next weapon used in a multi-victim shooting incident, or stabbing incident, or vehicular incident, etc.

Speak for yourself, bub.

As emotional as this subject is, the weapon is not the problem.

*Use* of the weapon is the problem, specifically so-called defensive use. Banning handguns and semi-auto rifles does virtually nothing to legitimate firearm uses. A bolt-action rifle or a shotgun is fine for hunting.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Every statistical analysis of a country outside of the US says you are wrong.


Oh for crying out loud, passing the buck to an entire generation. Give me a break.

Those are the facts. And yeah I blame my own and this generation for the problems they are causing. Like the saying you are what you eat, children and young adults are result of how they were parented and reared.