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How Can God's Love Be Unconditional?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Sunstone, Aug 4, 2008.

  1. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    It was a valid and fitting analogy.
     
  2. kmkemp

    kmkemp Active Member

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    You seem to have mastered the "false analogy" fallacy. :cool:
     
  3. stacey bo bacey

    stacey bo bacey oh no you di'int

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    I don't appreciate, like or entertain ultimatums, be it from "God," Jesus or anyone else.
     
  4. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Again. Why do you say that?
     
  5. kmkemp

    kmkemp Active Member

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    Because I never said nor inferred that hell is a way that God shows love, but that the reality of hell doesn't discount God's benevolence.

    Your question is set up in such a way to make your argument. If your god in this thread were really the Abrahamic God, you would include his other attributes such as being infinitely just. How can you reconcile his justness with his goodness? That is a hard question to answer, but skipping it just makes the following questions meaningless.
     
  6. kmkemp

    kmkemp Active Member

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    Is sinning against an infinite God enough to warrant infinite punishment?

    Is there actually an infinite punishment?

    Is hell really just the absence of God's presence?

    All good questions that need to be answered before we can even begin to judge God, if such a thing were even logical...
     
  7. blackout

    blackout Violet.

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    All joking? aside,
    I personally see "eternity" as the "ever present now".
    The place between reflection and projection
    (or past and future)
    that is the only place we ever truly experience life.

    The rest is illusory.

    So it is possible to experience hell "in" "eternity" (right now)
    (or any other kind of experience)
    without remaining in that "state" of being "forever".

    But mainstream christianity insists that you define things
    their way. the RIGHT way. :rolleyes:

    LDS has a much healthier view on all this.
    Some other fringe christians do as well.
     
    #27 blackout, Aug 4, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2008
  8. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    You have chosen your bed! Don't blame some one for your choices and call them something that they are not.
     
  9. darkendless

    darkendless Guardian of Asgaard

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    If any of those are true then he doesn't eternally love us, unless of course he is a cruel being like most of us are.
     
  10. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Fair enough. But God's benevolence is not the issue. The issue is whether God could both unconditionally love people and also condemn them to hell.

    How do you reconcile God's justice with his allegedly unconditional love?
     
  11. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Because he isn't just. How is torturing someone forever remotely just?
     
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  12. blackout

    blackout Violet.

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    Exactly. By mainstream definition, it just doesn't add up.
     
  13. kmkemp

    kmkemp Active Member

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    Before I can answer that, I'd like to see what verse you're using (if there even is one) to form your interpretation of God.
     
  14. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Do children who suffer cigarette burns as punishment for petty things "choose their bed"?
     
  15. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    No verse. I'm just going on the common notion that the Abrahamic god unconditionally loves his creation, including people.
     
  16. darkendless

    darkendless Guardian of Asgaard

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    Have to agree, most theistic religions claim that although we're sinners for certain events in our lives that all we have to do is accept God for him to shower us with love.

    Hell is an ultimatum, its basically accept God or suffer. Is there any way to get into heaven without God? If there is i'd like to hear it, as im sure they've got great security, the angels have to fill their days somehow.
     
  17. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    There is "No" eternal everburning hell! This is from the Greek phylosphy and tales.
    The NT tells of a final cleansing of the earth by fire and all who are not protected by God will be burned up, if you have chosen not to be among those protected, you then will be but, ashes.

    No loving father would create a condition to burn, reconstruct to burn again, reconstruct to burn again. Ever burnibg hell is the invention of mean, nasty and intolerant man.

    If I leave my property to some one, it will be to some one who clearly cares for me.
    If I leave out of my will the children who hate me, if this makes me a conditional lover! So be it. Call it whatever. But God has given you nothing that deserves this type of foul mouthing.
     
  18. kmkemp

    kmkemp Active Member

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    I make it a point to not concern myself with hell since the Bible itself is not at all clear what it is. Neither do I believe that its authors meant every word they wrote to be considered absolute truth.
    I don't think it's a problem worth worrying about and this is why: I consider that communion with the God of the universe to be an end worth pursuing irregardless of what may or may not happen if I chose poorly.
     
  19. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    To compare God to a saddistic heathen father is just dopey.
    If that child, turns around and passes it on to his children, yes, he chose his bed.
    Read the Hebrew bible and any father who does this would have been covered with stones and this type behavior would not exist.

    To read the bible from the back of the book is also dopey.
     
  20. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    See, that's another problem. Each person has their own little perception of who and what god is and isn't. Who's version should we trust?
     
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