How Can God's Love Be Unconditional?

[Hawkins]

Most of my examples are God doing things. Who else made the world-wide flood, for example? Who killed every firstborn son and calf in Egypt? Perhaps the genocide cannot be directly attributed to God, but everything else can.

These aren't a question of God stopping sad things from occuring, it's a question of God causing these sad things to occur. I don't see how a world-wide flood is a natural event, nor each first-born son dying through God's orders. That's not natural, that's through God's orders.

OT was written in such a way that God's sovereignty is always emphasized. As a result, you may find that it's said the devil did something while in another chapter regarding to the exact same event it's said God did that.

Will you show the verse where first born sons are killed? I never read that humans are sacrificed actually. I think ancient Jews can sacrifice animals for any needs.

 

[cardero]

rosje writes: These aren't a question of God stopping sad things from occuring, it's a question of God causing these sad things to occur. I don't see how a world-wide flood is a natural event, nor each first-born son dying through God's orders. That's not natural, that's through God's orders.

According to some posters, it seems that not only is God's love Unconditional but it is also unquestionable.

 

[Hawkins]

According to some posters, it seems that not only is God's love Unconditional but it is also unquestionable.

If this is true, then why so many questions here in this forum.

Whenever I read the OT, I usually pay attention to two things. First, what will happen to the souls, not just physical lives. For example, in Noah's flood, will there more souls saved with the flood or without the flood. Aparantly, people don't think this way, if they are willing to think this way, they may notice that actually more souls are saved with the flood.

Second, does it specially occur to the Jews. Sometimes things occurred specially for Jews for a purpose. For instance, certain rules such as Sabbath are specially enforced for the Jews to obey in an extremely strict way. This is done for purpose, if you are willing to speculate.

 

[cardero]

If this is true, then why so many questions here in this forum.

Whenever I read the OT, I usually pay attention to two things. First, what will happen to the souls, not just physical lives. For example, in Noah's flood, will there more souls saved with the flood or without the flood. Aparantly, people don't think this, if they are willing to think this way, they may notice that actually more souls are saved with the flood.

Second, does it specially occur to the Jews. Sometimes things occurred specially for Jews for a purpose. For instance, certain rules such as Sabbath are specially enforced for the Jews to obey in an extremely strict way. This is done for purpose, if you are willing to speculate.

Hawkins, from your knowledge and experience do you think that a soul chooses and purposes it’s own physical existence or do you think that God chooses and purposes a soul for physical existence?

Which one of these scenerios do you think best exemplifies a deity who expresses unconditional love?

 

[Hawkins]

Hawkins, from your knowledge and experience do you think that a soul chooses and purposes it’s own physical existence or do you think that God chooses and purposes a soul for physical existence?

Which one of these scenerios do you think best exemplifies a deity who expresses unconditional love?

I think it's both. Our ancestors were willing to give birth to offsprings while God allows. Actually i speculate that everything seems to be working on a mutual basis, including the working of fate and pre-destination.

Regarding to uncondtional love, I have the feeling that He only grants it to His sheep. His sheep will by fate hear His voice and choose Him. That is, He has unconditional love for His sheep.

Yet I know that I can't be more convincing in defining what unconditional could mean.

 

[Kcnorwood]

How can the Abrahamic god's love for people be unconditional if he is willing to condemn people to hell for not believing in him?

Hence the reason it is not unconditional if a child disobeys his parent does that parent send his/her child to hell? No, the child might be punished but nothing so harsh.

 

[Hawkins]

I think it's both. Our ancestors were willing to give birth to offsprings while God allows. Actually i speculate that everything seems to be working on a mutual basis, including the working of fate and pre-destination.

Regarding to uncondtional love, I have the feeling that He only grants it to His sheep. His sheep will by fate hear His voice and choose Him. That is, He has unconditional love for His sheep.

Yet I know that I can't be more convincing in defining what unconditional could mean.

Ok, let me put it this way in practice. I know that my mother's love for me is unconditional. Yet I can never say in an absolute way that my mother's love is unconditional. I simply don't think that we can define the absolute meaning of 'unconditional' itself.

 

[cardero]

Hence the reason it is not unconditional if a child disobeys his parent does that parent send his/her child to hell? No, the child might be punished but nothing so harsh.

A sit down with a thorough explaining and understanding with the child is a preferred method and I hear those "time-outs" can also be effective.

Numbers 3:4 And Nadab and Abihu died before the LORD, when they offered strange fire before the LORD, in the wilderness of Sinai, and they had no children: and Eleazar and Ithamar ministered in the priest's office in the sight of Aaron their father.

This kind of love I do not encourage or require in my life.

 

[d3vaLL]

Hell is pointless. I'll be saying "it doesn't add up" till I die, and I'll still be saying that when I'm burning in hell. God never spoke to me, never showed me anything. I never felt anything from Him and I tried for 12 years to be open and receiving. It was depressing and sad. I didn't have any motivation or self-confidence because of my lack of a relationship or "love" of God. As far as I can tell, his love isn't unconditional. He certainly chooses who he wants to talk to, so please understand the agnostic and atheist people here who squander the existence of God with their petty logic. It's all they have.

 

[Mister Emu]

How can the Abrahamic god's love for people be unconditional if he is willing to condemn people to hell for not believing in him?

I don't see it that way...

 

[Kcnorwood]

I don't see it that way...

You might not but the bible says differently & so do some Christians.

 

[Mister Emu]

You might not but the bible says differently & so do some Christians.

I would disagree with the first segment, but not the second...

 

[wlkngwthgod]

How can the Abrahamic god's love for people be unconditional if he is willing to condemn people to hell for not believing in Him?

It's a good question.
God put us here on this earth for a reason- to worship Him.
Now, that doesn't mean He is self-centered.
His love is unconditional in the sense that no matter what we do, He will always love us, but if we are unwilling to accept Him as our one true Father then that's when we're going to hell.

 

[darkendless]

It's a good question.
God put us here on this earth for a reason- to worship Him.
Now, that doesn't mean He is self-centered.
His love is unconditional in the sense that no matter what we do, He will always love us, but if we are unwilling to accept Him as our one true Father then that's when we're going to hell.

What a loving god he is. The same God that excludes homosexuals from his kingdom because they go againbst him. Note to self, accept God or he will punish me to please his flock of sheep.

 

[Scuba Pete]

How can the Abrahamic god's love for people be unconditional if he is willing to condemn people to hell for not believing in him?

Perhaps we have a disconnect in our views of who God will exclude and why. Perhaps the disconnect is in HOW someone gets excluded from heaven.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

It's threads like this where I feel the urge to give God a Big Squishy Hug. :rainbow1:

 

[Scuba Pete]

It's threads like this where I feel the urge to give God a Big Squishy Hug. :rainbow1:

God exists for big squishy hugs!

 

[MysticSang'ha]

If God is helpless while seeing so many of his creation writhing in Hell due to their choices? Give him a Big Squishy Hug. :rainbow1:

If God is sorely misunderstood by us mortal humans? Give him a Big Squishy Hug. :rainbow1:

If God is sadistic and heartless and cruel and petty? Give him a Big Squishy Hug. :rainbow1: (yay! Love your enemies!)

I can go on with all kinds of reasons why I'd like to offer a BSH to whatever anthropomorphic interpretation of God, but that might go on forever.

 

[cardero]

Wlkngwthgod writes: It's a good question. God put us here on this earth for a reason- to worship Him.

Why couldn’t God keep us where the angels are to worship Him? Why create a sustaining physical planet and human biological entities to do this?

Wlkngwthgod writes: His love is unconditional in the sense that no matter what we do, He will always love us, but if we are unwilling to accept Him as our one true Father then that's when we're going to hell.

That is a condition. The moment judgment is implied it becomes a condition. Unwilling acceptance towards a deity that one doesn’t want to accept if only to avoid the deity judging or punishing them is conditional. “Love/worship/adore me or else” is implying condition.

 

[kmkemp]

Yes it does. If you are condemned to hell for eternity, regardless of how you regretful you are of your actions, I cannot see how this is God showing his benevolence.

Indeed, I just said in the post you just quoted that this was not an example of God showing his benevolence.

Honestly, that makes any resulting argument worse - is it just for someone who is a thief to spend eternity in hell, while a mass murder gets the same sentence?

Well, first of all degrees of sin are a reality in the bible, so any speculation you are making here is your own. But, even if you're right, what makes one person more or less deserving? The point that is made absolutely clear is that ANY sin is worthy of eternal separation from God and THAT is why you need forgiveness.

Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.