Heaven

[URAVIP2ME]

2nd Peter 3 v 10 is Not talking about God's home [ 1st Kings chapter 8 ], but the wicked 'heavens' or 'air' or corrupt rule over mankind that will pass away.- Eph 2 v 2; Malachi 4 vs 1,3

It is the 'ungodly' according to 2nd Peter 3 v 7 B who will be destroyed. -Proverbs 2 vs 21,22.

The 'elements' [2nd Peter 3 v 10] are Not the periodic table, but the elementary bad things of Satan's now temporary 'world of woe' [Rev. 12 vs 9,12]
Cultivating the good aspects of God's spirit [ Galatians 5 vs 22,23 ] now will prove to be incombustible when the coming figurative heat is on.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I thought the only criterion - for a christian - is to believe in christ as your saviour. Do deeds matter?

Faith without works is dead- James 2 v 17

Jesus gave Christians 'spiritual works' to do which includes proclaiming the 'good news of God's kingdom' [Matthew 24 v 14; 28 vs 19,20] as a witness to the nations until we see the end come of all badness on earth. In other words, Christians are to spread the good news about God's kingdom being the solution to mankind's problems on an international scale just as it is being done today.

 

[InChrist]

I thought the only criterion - for a christian - is to believe in christ as your saviour. Do deeds matter?

I think deeds do matter because while they do not save anyone they do demonstrate whether someone truly does believe Jesus is their Savior.

 

[savagewind]

So then just to clarify, you are saying that Jesus Christ will not literally/physically come again because He is already here spiritually/invisibly. Am I understanding you correctly?

Do you think that it is possible that Christ can spiritually be present with a believer now and also come again to earth at some future point?

Anything is possible. I do not believe that Christ will physically come again to earth at some future point. When he died is it not written "it is accomplished". A seed will not grow into something unless it dies first. But it will grow into a plant with more seeds. Then more plants. Is one of those seeds another manifestation of God in the flesh?

 

[savagewind]

I thought the only criterion - for a christian - is to believe in christ as your saviour. Do deeds matter?

The answer is not simple. Deeds do not matter except for the deed of continuing with him. He is the shepherd. You must keep following the shepherd to be saved imo.

 

[InChrist]

Anything is possible. I do not believe that Christ will physically come again to earth at some future point. When he died is it not written "it is accomplished". A seed will not grow into something unless it dies first. But it will grow into a plant with more seeds. Then more plants. Is one of those seeds another manifestation of God in the flesh?

When Christ died He said, "It is finished" in reference to the payment for the sins of the world which He finished once and for all by His sacrifice. He was not referring to His future reign from the throne of David which did not even occur during His first coming. There are just too many prophetic scriptures in the OT and the NT concerning His second coming, thousand year reign on the throne of David in Jerusalem, Israel, and peace on earth which cannot be ignored.

 

[savagewind]

Strong's Greek: 5055.

finish, accomplish

From telos; to end, i.e. Complete, execute, conclude, discharge (a debt) -- accomplish, make an end, expire, fill up, finish, go over, pay, perform.

John 5:30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

John 5:36 I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me.

John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

John 17:4 I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.

He did not come only so that believers can have a good conscious.

All this:

When Christ died He said, "It is finished" in reference to the payment for the sins of the world which He finished once and for all by His sacrifice. He was not referring to His future reign from the throne of David which did not even occur during His first coming. There are just too many prophetic scriptures in the OT and the NT concerning His second coming, thousand year reign on the throne of David in Jerusalem, Israel, and peace on earth which cannot be ignored.

might be

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

It is my observation that some people will just love proof of God's existence. What proof? His coming back. Why? They will be proved right.

 

[Noaidi]

The answer is not simple. Deeds do not matter except for the deed of continuing with him. He is the shepherd. You must keep following the shepherd to be saved imo.

This is what I understand it to be. You can be an absolute bstard, but as long as you believe that jesus is your saviour, then you'll be ok.

 

[savagewind]

This is what I understand it to be. You can be an absolute bstard, but as long as you believe that jesus is your saviour, then you'll be ok.

No I tend to disagree. Bad people will not, cannot remain a long time with goodness. It makes them sick I think.

 

[InChrist]

Strong's Greek: 5055.

finish, accomplish

From telos; to end, i.e. Complete, execute, conclude, discharge (a debt) -- accomplish, make an end, expire, fill up, finish, go over, pay, perform.

John 5:30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

John 5:36 I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me.

John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

John 17:4 I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.

He did not come only so that believers can have a good conscious.

All this:



might be

It is my observation that some people will just love proof of God's existence. What proof? His coming back. Why? They will be proved right.

I have observed that those who love Christ already have proof of God's existence and those who reject God won't submit their lives to Him even when they see proof. Christ will come again because God always keeps His promises and fulfills His prophetic word to the detail. Christ literally came in fulfillment of all the prophecies concerning His first coming and He will literally come again in fulfillment of the prophecies concerning His second coming.

 

[Noaidi]

No I tend to disagree. Bad people will not, cannot remain a long time with goodness. It makes them sick I think.

But what if an evil person firmly adheres to the belief that Jesus is their saviour. Will they be admitted into heaven?
Edit: or an evil person repents, but does nothing physical in reparation to those he offended?

 

[InChrist]

This is what I understand it to be. You can be an absolute bstard, but as long as you believe that jesus is your saviour, then you'll be ok.

But that is not what the scriptures teach:

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Romans 6;1-3

 

[savagewind]

But what if an evil person firmly adheres to the belief that Jesus is their saviour. Will they be admitted into heaven?

It seems to be true that people can believe anything they want. It does not make it true.

Some people stubbornly believe anyone can be admitted to heaven. That is what the thread is about.

I believe Jesus is the savior of people who believe and listen. What good is believing if you don't?

I suspect there are people who do not believe Jesus is their savior but they listen to him anyway. Can they "go to heaven"? I think why not?

 

[savagewind]

Let's define "Heaven" as the condition of friendship with God. Is there anything better than being considered God's friend by God?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But what if an evil person firmly adheres to the belief that Jesus is their saviour. Will they be admitted into heaven?
Edit: or an evil person repents, but does nothing physical in reparation to those he offended?

No.
Please notice Hebrews [ 6 vs 4-6 ] because for someone who is that evil it is impossible.....
There is No forgiveness for the unforgivable sin. - Matthew 12 v 32
Destruction awaits the wicked- Psalm 92 v 7

If someone is Not beyond reform or repentance then he can be forgiven doing what is necessary in line to receive forgiveness. [ Example: returning what was stolen ]
- 2nd Peter 3 v 9 B

 

[Noaidi]

It seems to be true that people can believe anything they want. It does not make it true.

Of course. But what if they really believe it's true. Who are we to say that someone else's god-experience is false?

I suspect there are people who do not believe Jesus is their savior but they listen to him anyway. Can they "go to heaven"? I think why not?

In what way are they they listening to him? Are you referring to knowing a sense of right and wrong, here?

 

[InChrist]

But what if an evil person firmly adheres to the belief that Jesus is their saviour. Will they be admitted into heaven?

That is an oxymoron, an evil person cannot be a person who believes in Jesus as their Savior. If they are continuing in sin and are truly evil they cannot enter heaven.

And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Rev. 21:6-8

Edit: or an evil person repents, but does nothing physical in reparation to those he offended?

[/quote]

If an evil person repents Christ has paid for their sins and eternal life, but as a new creation in Christ they should do all that is possible to make restitution for the wrongs they have done to those they have harmed or offended.

 

[Noaidi]

No.
Please notice Hebrews [ 6 vs 4-6 ] because for someone who is that evil it is impossible.....
There is No forgiveness for the unforgivable sin. - Matthew 12 v 32
Destruction awaits the wicked- Psalm 92 v 7

If someone is Not beyond reform or repentance then he can be forgiven doing what is necessary in line to receive forgiveness. [ Example: returning what was stolen ]
- 2nd Peter 3 v 9 B

What does ' not beyond reform or repentance' entail?

 

[Noaidi]

That is an oxymoron, an evil person cannot be a person who believes in Jesus as their Savior. If they are continuing in sin and are truly evil they cannot enter heaven.

OK, I understand. Even though they may believe in jesus as their saviour, they won't necessarily get into heaven.

If an evil person repents Christ has paid for their sins and eternal life, but as a new creation in Christ they should do all that is possible to make restitution for the wrongs they have done to those they have harmed or offended

How is this possible in all cases, though? If I murder someone, then later become a christian, how do I right the wrongs I have done to the family concerned?

 

[savagewind]

Psalm 92:7
sprouted
the wicked
like
grass
flourished
and all
did
iniquity
might be destroyed
ever
against

HEBREW

Psalm 92:7 Hebrew Texts and Analysis

I believe has been inaccurately translated.

Doesn't it mean that God has allowed iniquity to flourish so that SIN might be destroyed forever?

In other words sin can exist in a seemingly perfect world. The crime of sin might happen to a few or even to one. Is it OK? No, it is not. God has let sin flourish so that it can be eliminated completely.

The boys sure do like making scriptures mean blood and guts, don't they?