I don't understand the question. I am not a Christian according to the popular definition of it. There are Christians who believe Jesus Christ will come again to Earth. I do not believe it. What is that about trotting to a mansion?
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Heaven
- Thread starter savagewind
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I don't understand the question. I am not a Christian according to the popular definition of it. There are Christians who believe Jesus Christ will come again to Earth. I do not believe it. What is that about trotting to a mansion?
I cannot argue "coming" because according to what I know (very little) it can mean "go". I think at John 14:3 it means go. If it says go it matches what I know.
Isaiah 55
6 “Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call upon him while he is near;
7 let the wicked forsake his way,
and the unrighteous man his thoughts;
let him return to the Lord, that he may have compassion on him,
and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
You may not like it. You may not understand it. You may not be able to accept it at the moment - But that doesn't change the fact that the scriptures are clear about what God requires of us concerning forgiveness.
We don't get to decide what part of God's ways we like or want. He knows what is best for us..
That may seem impossible for you to accept, let alone do, but all things are possible with God.
Matthew 19:
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
The good news is that once you accept Him and the Holy Spirit into your life, and submit to Him, you will start to have your heart and mind renewed to the point where not only does His teaching make sense but it actually begins to look preferable to the way the ways of the world.
The scriptures are clear on the matter of forgiveness, that there are no qualifications or conditions on the forgiveness we are to extend to others.
Stephen had evil done to him, by unrepentant nonbelievers no less, yet he chose to forgive them before he died - That's what the Holy Spirit's work in a person looks like, changing them to have the Father's love and mercy towards people, to regard other people as more important than themselves.
The Holy Spirit will renew your mind to not only accept what He says is true, but to actually understand it, and then have the power to apply it in your life.
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What I hear from you Rise is any sin can be forgiven except for the sin of refusing to forgive. Is that correct?
Luke 6
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
Matthew 6
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
Matthew 6
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
You are giving me scriptures. Are they not written for the believer? I'm talking about Hitler.
Why not tell us Rise how you have found it in your soul to forgive Hitler?
I am not talking about anyone who has offended me. You are not listening. I have found satisfaction already, no problem there either. Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin Dada, Pol Pot, are dead. I think they did not die soon enough. But they are dead. I am satisfied. Thank you for worrying about me. I love you too.
You are applying the rule to everyone for everything. I do not read the scriptures that way. You are making God's guide The Law. I think it is wrong to do that.
I believe the gospel as written. I do not believe what people say about it.
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear
InChrist
Free4ever
I believe the Earth can last forever if it is God's will that it does. The sun too of course. Can't have Earth without the sun. I do not know why the present view of Christ is that He will come again to be seen on Earth. They use one scripture that I know of which I believe can be interpreted any number of ways least of all that He will come again in the flesh. I do not expect that will happen ever. God is a Spirit. The Son is in the likeness of The Father, a spirit.
Just curious, which one scripture verse are you referring to that is used to say Christ will come again?
What do you think of Matthew 25 vs 31 , 32; 16 v 27 ?__________
Good question. I forget. I looked it up since then and wowzers! here it is. I shall troll. Please forgive me.
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
Matthew 24:30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
Mathew 26:64 In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
Mark 8:36-38 the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with holy angels.
Mark 13:26-27 At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
Mark 14:61-62 Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Might One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
Luke 17:28-30 "It was the same in the days of Lot. .... "It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.
Luke 18:8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?"
Acts 1:11 "Men of Galilee," they said. "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."
1 Corinthians 1:7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.
1 Corinthians 11:26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.
Philippians 1:10 so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ, filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ - to the glory and praise of God.
Philippians 3:20 And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.
Colossians 3:4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
1 Thessalonians 2:19 For what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes? Is it not you? Indeed, you are our glory and joy.
1 Thessalonians 3:13 May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.
1 Thessalonians 4:15- For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of god, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 1:7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels.
2 Thessalonians 2:1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destory by the splendor of his coming.
1 Timothy 6:13-16 I charge you to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which God will bring about in his own time - God the blessed and only Ruler, the King of Kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen
2 Timothy 4:1-2 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage- with great patience and careful instruction.
2 Timothy 4:8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day - and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
Titus 2:12 It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope - the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Hebrews 10:25 Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another - and all the more as you see the day approaching.
Hebrews 3:7 For in just a very little while, "He who is coming will come and will not delay.
James 5:7-9 Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord's coming.
1 Peter 1:13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed.
1 Peter 2:12 Live such good lives among the pagans that though they acuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.
1 Peter 4:13 But rejoice that you participate in the suffering of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.
1 Peter 5:4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.
2 Peter 1:16 We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2 Peter 3:3 First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is the 'coming' he promised?
2 Peter 3:8-10 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is ike a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to peris, but everyone to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; The elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.
1 John 2:28 And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming.
1 John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are like children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, We shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure.
Jude 1:14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him."
Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
Two hopes: One heavenly. One earthly
The context and setting is Jesus talking to his apostles who he made a covenant [contract] with them.- Luke 22 vs 29,30.
In God's heavenly kingdom, those called to heaven besides those apostles have two [2] jobs to do.
According to Revelation [ 5 vs 9,10 ] they serve with Jesus as: kings and priests.
They are joint-heirs with Christ [ Romans 8 v 17]
They will reign over earthly subjects of God's kingdom.- Psalm 72 vs 8, 12-14
As kings they will take care of the governmental needs of earth's population.
As priests they will take care of spiritual needs of those living on earth.
Everyone who lived before Jesus died will have an earthly resurrection.- John 3 v 13
Even people like King David did Not ascend to heaven- Acts 2 v 34.
The prophet Daniel looked forward to an earthly resurrection.- Daniel 12 vs 2,13
Even the people of Hebrews chapter 11 did Not see the 'promise'.- Heb. 11 vs 13,39
God's promise to Abraham that all families of earth would be blessed, and that all nations of earth would be blessed. Blessed with healing or curing of earth's nations.
No one needs healing in heaven.
- Genesis 12 v 3; 22 v 18; Rev. 22 v 2; Psalm 103 v 3; 2nd Peter 3 v 13
We are nearing the threshold of Jesus' coming 1000-year reign over earth or over earthly subjects. Nearing the 'time of separation' [Matthew 25 vs 31,32] when the humble living sheep-like people on earth can remain alive on earth right into the start of Jesus millennial reign over earth when Jesus, as Prince of Peace', will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.
InChrist
Free4ever
When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. Matthew 25;31-32
For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Matthew 16;27
I think these verses mean what they say.
Half of it I had to erase. It would not fit.
This is the one I referred to; Matthew 24:30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
This is the one I referred to; Matthew 24:30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
InChrist
Free4ever
Good question. I forget. I looked it up since then and wowzers! here it is. I shall troll. Please forgive me.
I thought you said, "They use one scripture". Why did you post so many?
I am sharing. I did not know there was so many. It is a no wonder they believe it! "Coming" can mean "present". I believe Christ IS present. I believe he always was. But he was not always present with glory. Now he is. It takes time and a willingness to endure to know his presence with glory. When a person discovers his glorious presence it can be said he has arrived to the person.
I'm sorry I put all those scriptures in. I like them.
InChrist
Free4ever
So then just to clarify, you are saying that Jesus Christ will not literally/physically come again because He is already here spiritually/invisibly. Am I understanding you correctly?
Do you think that it is possible that Christ can spiritually be present with a believer now and also come again to earth at some future point?
