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Heaven

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Question Everything
Math 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Luke 6: 37
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:


34 Then
said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.


...Father, … forgive us our debts,
as we forgive our debtors...


[youtube]E7zwQ_7q-fU[/youtube]
Forgiveness: My Burden Was Made Light - YouTube
 

Freedomelf

Active Member
I understand that very bad sin can be forgiven. I feel I must campaign against the idea that ALL sin can be forgiven. Some sin is so obviously against life that to teach it is capable of being forgiven is just lazy and cowardly imo. How so cowardly? People who are afraid to judge sin are afraid to be judged. are they not?

And who decides which sins are too bad to be forgiven and which aren't? Some people might say murder is unforgiveable; others wouldn't. I remember once when I was a child, one of my friends said that a certain spirit (one that should never have anything said against it, according to Christianity) "wore combat boots." Does this mean that she cannot be forgiven, ever? Exactly what line is drawn on exactly what can and cannot be said? And who draws that line? A pope with more flaws than you find on yard sale castoffs? What about the people in the 1500s who were "damned" and excommunicated because they stated that the earth moved around the sun? The "holy" people who damned them were just as positive then as someone might be now when they think that they know, for certain, which sins are forgivable and which aren't.

I don't think that any religion should be spouting anything other than an admonishment to do kindness to one another. Love each other, be gentle to one another, be kind. Don't worry about someone joking about combat boots or some silly, stupid thing. It is my opinion that most religions have altogether too many rules, too much dogma, and not enough true godliness.

As far as people being afraid to judge, I disagree. I think there are altogether too many people who are more than happy to judge others. That's the problem with the world. They walk around proudly displaying how good they are and giving their opinions on the badness of others. I don't think they're afraid. They should be...but they aren't. There's altogether too much judging done, and not enough acceptance of diversity.

Although I do agree that some sins are terrible, like murder, I am not (nor is any other person on Earth) smart enough to decide which of these people will go to hell and which won't. They can be judged, but the only punishments for those judgements are mortal and Earth based. Leave their eternal judgment to God, and do not presume anything. The only thing I want to do with such people is to make sure that on THIS Earth, they do not harm anyone else. Keep the world safe from those who would prey on others, and leave the rest to the next life. Peace.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And who decides which sins are too bad to be forgiven and which aren't? Some people might say murder is unforgiveable; others wouldn't. I remember once when I was a child, one of my friends said that a certain spirit (one that should never have anything said against it, according to Christianity) "wore combat boots." Does this mean that she cannot be forgiven, ever? Exactly what line is drawn on exactly what can and cannot be said? And who draws that line? A pope with more flaws than you find on yard sale castoffs? What about the people in the 1500s who were "damned" and excommunicated because they stated that the earth moved around the sun? The "holy" people who damned them were just as positive then as someone might be now when they think that they know, for certain, which sins are forgivable and which aren't.

I don't think that any religion should be spouting anything other than an admonishment to do kindness to one another. Love each other, be gentle to one another, be kind. Don't worry about someone joking about combat boots or some silly, stupid thing. It is my opinion that most religions have altogether too many rules, too much dogma, and not enough true godliness.

As far as people being afraid to judge, I disagree. I think there are altogether too many people who are more than happy to judge others. That's the problem with the world. They walk around proudly displaying how good they are and giving their opinions on the badness of others. I don't think they're afraid. They should be...but they aren't. There's altogether too much judging done, and not enough acceptance of diversity.

Although I do agree that some sins are terrible, like murder, I am not (nor is any other person on Earth) smart enough to decide which of these people will go to hell and which won't. They can be judged, but the only punishments for those judgements are mortal and Earth based. Leave their eternal judgment to God, and do not presume anything. The only thing I want to do with such people is to make sure that on THIS Earth, they do not harm anyone else. Keep the world safe from those who would prey on others, and leave the rest to the next life. Peace.

People claim to hear all kinds of truth and wisdom from God The Spirit. Who judges? God judges. My thread is about LET GOD JUDGE. OK?

ps. I LOVE yard sales. They have the best clothes. OMG.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Math 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Luke 6: 37
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:


34 Then
said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.


...Father, … forgive us our debts,
as we forgive our debtors...


[youtube]E7zwQ_7q-fU[/youtube]
Forgiveness: My Burden Was Made Light - YouTube

A well made film. Thanks for sharing it. The film was about an accident. My heart goes out to the killer. I would not in a million years condemn him for drinking and driving. If I did I would condemn myself and millions more. If I pronounced him guilty I would not be allowed to even drive. I get sleepy when I drive. Did you know that sleepy driving is as bad as drunk driving? By the look on the boys face it looks like he has suffered terribly. I am always conscious that my driving should be extra careful. I have told my children that they should be honest with me as I get old and not as capable and when I must surrender my license to drive they must not allow me to be stubborn as I know old people can be.
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It is not about sins that a person did not intend to commit. It is about purposefully making another person's life hell on earth. I say I have absolutely no business leaving a way open for it to be forgiven. Even if the person is repentant I do not think that to ruin the lives of people on purpose should ever be expected to be forgiven. Think of it this way please. An evil person has done their evil deeds to ruin lives on purpose and should it be possible for God to forgive it? It is possible. Is it possible to believe God will forgive? I think it should not be possible. Why? What about the lives he has ruined? If you forgive the evil man what will you say to the victims? He is sorry? God has forgiven him, you should forgive him too. Really? It sounds like giving the victim more hell imo.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think believing it is possible for God to forgive anything is likened to being equal to God (a sin).
 
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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
I don't understand the question. I am not a Christian according to the popular definition of it. There are Christians who believe Jesus Christ will come again to Earth. I do not believe it. What is that about trotting to a mansion?

You said this
“I believe the Earth can last forever if it is God's will that it does.”
That was In reply to a section of the thread dealing with being with Jesus eternally on Earth.
I posted a verse showing that it doesn’t say people will be with Jesus eternally on Earth.
Also I wasn’t calling you a Christian – I was referencing that it is from a Christian point of view.
“But if you are Christian - how does that line up with…”
Perhaps I should have said – “But if one is a Christian – how would that line up…”
With the "trotting" reference I was being funny - while showing the Mansion verse isn't about Earth.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Math 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Luke 6: 37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:


34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.


...Father, … forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors...



The problem is that these are always taken out of context.

The Bible tells us to JUDGE, CONDEMN, and EXECUTE, certain wrong doers.

I don't believe for a second that the texts listed above mean for us to forgive murderers, etc.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member

You said this
“I believe the Earth can last forever if it is God's will that it does.”
That was In reply to a section of the thread dealing with being with Jesus eternally on Earth.
I posted a verse showing that it doesn’t say people will be with Jesus eternally on Earth.
Also I wasn’t calling you a Christian – I was referencing that it is from a Christian point of view.
“But if you are Christian - how does that line up with…”
Perhaps I should have said – “But if one is a Christian – how would that line up…”
With the "trotting" reference I was being funny - while showing the Mansion verse isn't about Earth.

The physical Earth can last forever but only with God's power to renew it and the sun. During that time of forever 'Jesus' will be spirit just like always except for when he wasn't. :) That would be when he was a man.

There is a Christian sect that believes 'Jesus' will rule while in a physical body. That is what I hear. It is possible I am hearing them wrong.

God is a spirit. The son is like the Father, a spirit.

It was fun asking about the trotting. I appreciate it.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I suppose this is a topic better left to Jesus to answer. God knows us better than we know ourselves.

To be giving away all judgement to Christ to decide, is to be putting a very heavy burden on The Spirit. It would be ignoring God's plea "Be wise".

Yes, God knows us better than we know ourselves.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Your reward will be according to your works.

Christians should do 'spiritual works' such as found at Galatians [5 vs 22,23 ], and the proclaiming of the good news of God's kingdom on an international scale [Matt. 24 v 14].
But it is Jesus' faithful death that brings salvation [ Rev. 7 v 14 ]
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Christians should do 'spiritual works' such as found at Galatians [5 vs 22,23 ], and the proclaiming of the good news of God's kingdom on an international scale [Matt. 24 v 14].
But it is Jesus' faithful death that brings salvation [ Rev. 7 v 14 ]

The problem is Christiand go overboard proselytizing.

They only remember the go out and do it verses - forgetting the one that says to not let the dust settle in your hasty retreat away from people that don't want to hear it!
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
The problem is Christiand go overboard proselytizing.

They only remember the go out and do it verses - forgetting the one that says to not let the dust settle in your hasty retreat away from people that don't want to hear it!

Your expression of this concept sounds like retreat.

The expression I got was more like....kick the dust from your shoes as you leave them behind as a sign unto them.
Leaving someone behind is not retreat.

It is.... abandonment.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Your expression of this concept sounds like retreat.

The expression I got was more like....kick the dust from your shoes as you leave them behind as a sign unto them.
Leaving someone behind is not retreat.

It is.... abandonment.

Whichever way you take it - you are to leave them alone - not harass them.

Mat 10:1 And those whosoever don't receive you, nor receive your words, depart the residence/family, or the town of these, shaking/raising the dust from/with your feet.
 

Tbone

Member
Christians should do 'spiritual works' such as found at Galatians [5 vs 22,23 ], and the proclaiming of the good news of God's kingdom on an international scale [Matt. 24 v 14].
But it is Jesus' faithful death that brings salvation [ Rev. 7 v 14 ]

Faith alone is worthless.
 
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