Have you ever found a single bug in Islam?

[LuisDantas]

Let's talk reason and common sense ... shall we ?

Sure!

#1 : Allah(God) knows best about His creation, and He will never treat anyone unfairly and unjustly.

Ok.

#2 "Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger." (Al Qur'an 17:15)

A person who has never heard of Islam or the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), and who has never heard the message in its correct and true form, will not be punished by Allah if he dies in a state of disbelief

Some problems here.

Life as I witness it has plenty of people bearing the burdens of others.

Also, you seem to be implying that it is possible that atheists may exist that are not properly sinners, but instead simply fail to see the true message of the Quran (perhaps because it was not presented fairly to them).

I'm afraid I can't agree with that, to the extent that it still implies that only ignorance of "true Islam" would make atheism not a sin.

#3 To you something else might be a bigger sin, but to God(according to the Qur'an) associating partners with Allah(God) in His lordship is the biggest sin.
"O my son! join not in worship (others) with Allah: for false worship is indeed the highest wrong-doing." (Al Qur'an 31:13)

That brings an interesting, if perhaps unanswearable, question: is the God who demands worship possibly a true God?

Another, even more important question, is how can one possibly tell what constitutes false worship.

Do the various, often mutually exclusive conceptions about what God is like (even within Islam) constitute worship of other Gods?

I sincerelly feel that answering with either "yes" or "no" would be a serious injustice. A more complex approach is needed.

Also, by that token, isn't perhaps atheism in fact better from a moral standpoint?

So if you are going to use Qur'an to prove Islam false, at least go by the definitions stated there in.

#4 Imagine you tell your dad that I don't believe you are my father and I am not going to obey you. What is he going to do ? He's going to kick you out of his house instantly. At least God is letting you live and enjoy this life and still giving you an opportunity to mend your ways and turn to Him.

That is not an applicable parallel. God never presented himself to me, after all. It is hardly my choice to be an atheist.

#5 So essentially all I hear is your emotional whining that you don't wanna accept God and do not want to follow Him but you don't want to be punished either for denying Him and all the blessings that He bestowed upon you. You know what ? That wouldn't be fair to all those who believed in Him and obeyed Him day in/day out for the duration of their life.

Peace.

Whining? Is that how it comes to you?

God is probably an ok dude. I don't mind if he turns out to exist after all. I certainly have no beef with him, nor can he possibly have any with me.

Heck, if I ever meet God, we will probably have a lot to chat about how badly understood he is.

I do not believe that will ever happen, but I certainly do not have reason to fear that. I know myself well enough, and I take my beliefs seriously enough, to know for certain that it would not make any sense whatsoever.

 

[LuisDantas]

Enough to understand Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism and Atheism.



That doesn't surprise me cause everyone is different and comes with a different mind set. However, all the converts to Islam stories I have seen, they tell a different story. Take, for example, IVY League educated American Atheist who converted to Islam. About Dr. Brown | LevelTruth.com

You can see more stories here : Converts Reverts and The Deen Show

And these people range from the entire spectrum of educational, religious, national backgrounds.

It stands to reason that converts, and even reconverts, would of course claim that Islam makes sense.

But if you are expecting someone else to take your bet that we would convert to Islam if only we gave it a fair chance... that is simply not true for everyone. And if Islam depends on it being true, than it is flawed in that respect as well.

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

It would be a huge waste of time to follow something you don't believe in completely.

That may be the case, but it doesn't make you're claims any more rational.
When people are completely convinced their religion is true, it's due to emotional reasons not rational ones.
Therefore you're religion is as rational and true as anyone else's.

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

May be you didn't understand - based on evidence I see, I believe it to be True.

So honestly, was you not born a Muslim?

 

[gnostic]

#1 : Allah(God) knows best about His creation, and He will never treat anyone unfairly and unjustly.

That's not true.

In Qur'an 4 (don't remember the verse, and it's morning and I just got up), it say a man can beat his wife, for disobedience towards him (husband).

But what if the husband is the one who is wrong.

Just because the husband is a "man", doesn't make him "right", "intelligent" or "wise".

This verse(s) is neither fair nor just, and it lead to domestic violence that one partner can justify beating of his partner. This verse encouraged misogynistic or sexist attitude towards women, and lead to abuse of relationship. This is not a marriage of equal partners, but a marriage of master and slave.

Not too long ago, one supposed leading cleric or scholar, said that a man can force sex on his wife, and this act won't be considered "rape" in the eye of Islam.

 

[Ingledsva]

A reasonable person would not call be a sinner simply because I disbelieve in God, without regarding who I actually am and what I actually do.

Islam, according to Muslims that I doubt to be mistaken on this matter, states outright that according to God as expressed by way of the Quran, I am such a sinner anyhow.

Therefore, if Islam is true, God is somehow more flawed than the average person.

But if that is of course an even more serious absurd.

Therefore, either I am lying or Islam is wrong.

And I am not lying.

Let's talk reason and common sense ... shall we ?

#1 : Allah(God) knows best about His creation, and He will never treat anyone unfairly and unjustly.

#2 "Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger." (Al Qur'an 17:15)

A person who has never heard of Islam or the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), and who has never heard the message in its correct and true form, will not be punished by Allah if he dies in a state of disbelief

#3 To you something else might be a bigger sin, but to God(according to the Qur'an) associating partners with Allah(God) in His lordship is the biggest sin.
"O my son! join not in worship (others) with Allah: for false worship is indeed the highest wrong-doing." (Al Qur'an 31:13)

So if you are going to use Qur'an to prove Islam false, at least go by the definitions stated there in.

#4 Imagine you tell your dad that I don't believe you are my father and I am not going to obey you. What is he going to do ? He's going to kick you out of his house instantly. At least God is letting you live and enjoy this life and still giving you an opportunity to mend your ways and turn to Him.


#5 So essentially all I hear is your emotional whining that you don't wanna accept God and do not want to follow Him but you don't want to be punished either for denying Him and all the blessings that He bestowed upon you. You know what ? That wouldn't be fair to all those who believed in Him and obeyed Him day in/day out for the duration of their life.

Peace.

WOW! A lot of words - and you didn't even discuss what Luis actually said.

Also, how do you equate a logical rebuttal with whining?



*

 

[Penumbra]

Enough to understand Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism and Atheism.

Since you didn't specify a single text when answering the question, does that mean that you read none in full, other than the Qur'an, before concluding that Islam is 100% surely true and the most rational system?

 

[Enai de a lukal]

hello guys! I have joined such type of religious community for the first time, and I'm curious about knowing answer for the question "have you ever found any bug in Islam?" if yes, please tell me. I was sort of polytheist before, but now i'm just a Muslim after knowing strong arguments of Muslim scholars.

If you're asking whether there are any "bugs" in Islam, the answer is a rather obvious "yes"; Islam is a form of theism, and it asserts the existence of a god- a god with certain characteristics. Unfortunately, theism is unsound, and thus any theistic religion- Islam included- is essentially a house without a foundation, a car without wheels. RE theism generally:

..."exhausting all possible perspectives" is a red herring: there are certain elements all forms of theism must have in common, in order to qualify as theism in the first place- the existence of god, for one. I argue that transcendence and agency are the sine qua non of theistic gods generally, and thus is a distinctive, necessary feature of theism as such. However, if a causal agent which transcends all conditions and relations is incoherent, as it most surely is (since causal agency entails being subject to conditions and relations), then we needn't consider each individual type of theism- the necessary, distinguishing feature of theism as such is incoherent. Considering particular forms of theism would be redundant.

The question really is "what is it about the notion of deity that allows you to rule out some sort of deity"- a entity which transcends conditions/relations transcends being and can only entail non-being; such an entity standing in causal relations with the world is contradictory... a "creation event" of spacetime/the universe involving a causal agent is incoherent no less than "north of the north pole"... and RE theism as an explanation, IF explanations are propositional AND mysteries beg questions rather than answer them AND God is the biggest mystery (i.e. theos), then God neither explains nor justifies why things happen in the world. "God did it" is a pseudo-explanation.

... a "creative force" "causing existence" is simply word salad- "causing existence" assumes a prior antecedent state for such an agent to exist in, but prior to existence, nothing exists. But a causal agent must exist, by definition. This is essentially the same problem with a transcendent agent; agency and transcendence are mutually exclusive, as is agency and non-existence (but again, creating/causing existence once again assumes an antecedent state of non-existence). You're trying to give this entity contradictory properties; either it is a causal agent, in which case it is not a god, or it is transcendent, but then it cannot be a causal agent.

... the existence of a being who is characterized, at least in part, by causing particular changes in the world (the creation of the universe, of life, divine revelation, divine punishment, etc. etc.), entails certainly worldly evidence- the absence of which necessarily constitutes evidence of absence. Well, then-

-Is the world scientifically observable?
-Are events/changes in the world scientifically observable?
-Does (any) god cause events, or changes, in the world?
-Which events, or changes, in the world can only be accounted for by (any) god?

If there are no events, or changes, in the world which can only be accounted for by (any) god, then on what non-subjective, non-anecdotal, corroborative, basis can it be reasonably claimed that (any) god is real?

*On the other hand, maybe one isn't concerned with the question of whether Islam has any "bugs" in the sense of false teachings, errors, or false presuppositions, but wants to know if there is anything wrong with Islam in a moral sense- and in this regard we can certainly enumerate the sorts of things other posters have called attention to.

 

[Ingledsva]

Sure (but that's a big big IF) ... there can only be one Truth.

It is totally illogical that an all knowing God would send people to eternal torture, - just - for being born into a family, culture, or country, with a different religion, - and thus being taught to believe in that religion.


The same goes with Atheism. It is illogical for an all knowing God to send Atheists to eternal torture for not believing in him - when he himself would be responsible for this Atheism, by not making his "Godly self" known - beyond question!


This holds for all of the religions of Abraham.


*

 

[gnostic]

Absolutely - it is more rational than any other system in place.

Shalom...how's it going ? I wanted to include 'atheism' by using that term ... may be the wrong use of word.

Atheism is only about someone's personal belief that god don't exist, hence an atheist is "not theist", that's all, nothing more, nothing less.

Atheism is not about against morality. Atheism doesn't mention moral at all.

Some theists (whether they be Christians or muslims) confused atheism with science (particularly with evolution), or atheism with communism. Atheism have nothing to do with science or politics.

2

a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity​

Nothing in the above definitions, mention anything about moral, science or communism.

There is no system in atheism.

 

[Sees]

Bugs about Islam in a quick flash...
-takes old Hebrew/region's myths as literal
-gets Tankah and other Jewish teachings confused (not likely for a deity or jinn)
-sees women as less intelligent and religious pious or spiritually capable as men
-has and continues to force Islam upon others for many centuries and this isn't extremism but foundational
-it's prophet/guru/sage Muhammad was the least interesting, convincing, inspiring, etc. and he himself thought it was evil desert spirits tormenting him when he would go on a cave retreat
*probably was looking at the results

Islam has no possibility of being "true"...unless we use a very, very funky definition of true.

 

[McBell]

Here comes the troll...

:biglaugh:
It is not my fault you have yet to start talking reason and common sense...
It is interesting that you were the one making the request.

 

[Ingledsva]

i mean is there any Islamic teaching against humanity? against science? against moral values? any mistake you ever found in Quran?

We recently had a discussion about a Qur'an text that is scientifically in error.


I don't remember the text number, - but it was something about Allah having placed an impenetrable barrier between fresh water and salt water, - which is of course false.



*

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Salaam.

I do not understand what you mean by "system in place."

Shalom...how's it going ? I wanted to include 'atheism' by using that term ... may be the wrong use of word.

It's going well - thank you.

I think my question/issue has to do with the phrase "in place." Were you simply claiming Islam to be the most rational philosophy? And, if so, how could you possibly defend such a claim? How, for example, might you confirm that Islam is more rational than Judaism … or Taoism … or Deism … or Secular Humanism … or … ?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Let me ask you a question. Both of our faith traditions reference Ibrahim/Abraham and his willingness to sacrifice his son. Do you insist that this narrative is historically accurate?

 

[LuisDantas]

It would be a huge waste of time to follow something you don't believe in completely.

Would it? At least under the correct circunstances, it could be a beautiful display of faith instead.

Have you never felt both the risk of following the lead of someone who you were not 100% certain of, and later the relief of seeing that it was the right call after all?

It can be a very powerful experience. Granted, it is not particularly safe, but still.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I have a problem with monotheism in general. I am a hard polytheist and an animist. I have been a Christian before but gave it up when I found I couldn't believe in the teachings of Christianity anymore. It just doesn't match up to my own view and experience of life and the world around me.

Then there's Islam's notion that we only exist to worship Allah and we must worship him no matter what. That doesn't jive well with me. I will only worship a god if its values match up to mine and I feel it deserves my reverence. If I feel that it is hostile to me, my individuality, my goals, etc. then I will not worship it and count it as an enemy of mine. I view Allah/Yahweh as being hostile to me, my goals and my individuality so I count him has an enemy of mine. I threw myself into worshiping that god before and it made me miserable. It was only when I stopped being so devout that I stopped feeling so bad. Eventually I just decided to give it up completely since I was finding less and less of a reason to hold onto it.

Plus, I do not see that cultures that worship the Abrahamic god are respectful of democracy or individual freedom, which are two things that I hold very dear. I find that they tend to be unscientific, homophobic, sexist and anti-pluralism.

 

[technomage]

The differences are in practices/rituals not major belief unlike other religions/philosophies etc. For example, every Muslim believe that there is only One God and that Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is the last messenger and that the Qur'an is the divine verbatim word of God and that there's day of judgement + heaven/hell. Not to mention sometimes those differences are considered good (not always though). But there's difference in every spectrum of life - that doesn't make it fallible.

Is it not recorded in the Jami` at-Tirmidhi, that the Prophet (pbuh) said "My Ummah (Community or Nation) will be fragmented into seventy-three sects, and all of them will be in the Hell fire except one"? Was it not less than a quarter of a century from the death of the Prophet (pbuh) to the First Fitna? Do not the Sunni and the Shi'a war with each other, from time to time, to this day?

Any "difference" that is severe enough to go to the sword to resolve is sufficiently major.

The unity of the Ummah has failed, far beyond that which was prophesied. Just as it did with Christianity. Just as it did with Judaism. Just as it did with Baha'i, and with Buddhism, and even with my own Wicca.

If there is a God, there is no faith in this world that speaks for Him.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Is it not recorded in the Jami` at-Tirmidhi, that the Prophet (pbuh) said "My Ummah (Community or Nation) will be fragmented into seventy-three sects, and all of them will be in the Hell fire except one"? Was it not less than a quarter of a century from the death of the Prophet (pbuh) to the First Fitna? Do not the Sunni and the Shi'a war with each other, from time to time, to this day?

Any "difference" that is severe enough to go to the sword to resolve is sufficiently major.

The unity of the Ummah has failed, far beyond that which was prophesied. Just as it did with Christianity. Just as it did with Judaism. Just as it did with Baha'i, and with Buddhism, and even with my own Wicca.

If there is a God, there is no faith in this world that speaks for Him.

I was reading this, though not really related to the OP, but just a correction: No division has ever occurred in Baha'i Faith. Yes, there has been attempts, but never succeeded as anyone who tried to make a sect, have either become extinct with time, or have remained very small in numbers, representing 'far' less than 0.1% of all Baha'is.

 

[technomage]

I was reading this, though not really related to the OP, but just a correction: No division has ever occurred in Baha'i Faith. Yes, there has been attempts, but never succeeded as anyone who tried to make a sect, have either become extinct with time, or have remained very small in numbers, representing 'far' less than 0.1% of all Baha'is.

I am also aware that schisms have occurred: the schismatics simply failed to obtain a following.

And let all in this conversation understand: I do not mean any disrespect to ANY of the faiths I mentioned. To my mind, the only unfruitful path, the only path worthy of actual condemnation, is the path that causes harm to others or to self. I see all of us, whether we believe in many Gods, one God, or no Gods as people who are walking the best we can, by the light that we have.