Have you ever found a single bug in Islam?

[Farrukh]

hello guys! I have joined such type of religious community for the first time, and I'm curious about knowing answer for the question "have you ever found any bug in Islam?" if yes, please tell me. I was sort of polytheist before, but now i'm just a Muslim after knowing strong arguments of Muslim scholars.

Edited later: i mean is there any Islamic teaching against humanity? against science? against moral values? any mistake you ever found in Quran?

 

[technomage]

hello guys! I have joined such type of religious community for the first time, and I'm curious about knowing answer for the question "have you ever found any bug in Islam?" if yes, please tell me. I was sort of polytheist before, but now i'm just a Muslim after knowing strong arguments of Muslim scholars.

I do not know if you would consider it to be a "bug" or not, but there is this.

My wife considered converting. She was studying with some friends, but decided against converting upon discovering that our marriage would be suspended. (Surah 60:10)

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

hello guys! I have joined such type of religious community for the first time, and I'm curious about knowing answer for the question "have you ever found any bug in Islam?" if yes, please tell me. I was sort of polytheist before, but now i'm just a Muslim after knowing strong arguments of Muslim scholars.

What do you mean by bug?

Are you talking about errors in the Quran?
Or do you mean moral issues in Islam?

 

[LuisDantas]

By "bug", do you mean some sort of flaw, imperfection or questionable part?

I take it that literally at least "Islam" means "perfection", so I suppose we should take some care in defining what we are talking about.

If you mean to know whether the Islamic Faith as it actually exists far as human beings that have not converted can perceive it has anything worth of criticism, then I must say that sure, it has quite a few troublesome characteristics.

Chief among them, the insistence on relying on the text of the Quran above all else, creating perhaps irresolvible impasses when there is no clear consensus on how to properly interpret it.

Related matters are the insistence on seeing atheism as wrong (it quite simply is not) and even "the highest sin"; the reliance on central authorities even when it is not a particularly practical or constructive arrangement; and the lack of adequate means of dealing with particularly unwise interpretations of the doctrine.

Or, as I should probably say since that is what I mean, it is simply not very dharmic, either in origin or in practice.

Of course, a blanket statement is by definition unfair. I do not mean that Islam is no good. Even leaving aside the grammatical nonsense of such a statement, it is still clearly true that it is constructive for many, many people. I just don't see evidence that it is perfect or destined to become such.

 

[Farrukh]

What do you mean by bug?

Are you talking about errors in the Quran?
Or do you mean moral issues in Islam?

i mean is there any Islamic teaching against humanity? against science? against moral values? any mistake you ever found in Quran?

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

i mean is there any Islamic teaching against humanity? against science? against moral values? any mistake you ever found in Quran?

Of course there is!

The Koran mentions a wall that does not and cannot exist.
The Koran says the earth and mountains have intelligence and emotion.
It claims an act recognized a man and his army.
The Koran and prophet claim the heart is where knowledge is contained.
The Koran describes a solid sky canopy.
The Koran incorrectly claims embryos are initially blood clots, instaed of mentioning female egg. We could go on forever.

As for moral issues:
Fight disbelivers.
Beating the wife allowed if husband fears the wife may act wrongly.
Prophet said most peole in hell are women as they are ungrateful.
Slavery allowed, including having sex with them.
How many more examples do you need.

Scholars are very good at manipulating the truth, you need to do your own research rather than fall into their trap.

 

[Farrukh]

Chief among them, the insistence on relying on the text of the Quran above all else, creating perhaps irresolvible impasses when there is no clear consensus on how to properly interpret it.

Related matters are the insistence on seeing atheism as wrong (it quite simply is not) and even "the highest sin";

Muslims don't just rely on Quran, if some matter is not mentioned in Quran, then Sayings of last Holy Prophet peace be upon him are consulted, and even if they don't solve the problem, finally Scholars can decide the thing from their knowledge and thinking.
regarding Atheism, it was not only rejected in Islam, but it is also rejected in Christianity and Judaism.

 

[Iti oj]

hello guys! I have joined such type of religious community for the first time, and I'm curious about knowing answer for the question "have you ever found any bug in Islam?" if yes, please tell me. I was sort of polytheist before, but now i'm just a Muslim after knowing strong arguments of Muslim scholars.

Thank you for making a new debate thread. :foryou:

 

[Penumbra]

Out of the various religions I researched, Islam was the one that I found the least value or truth in.

With other religions I generally came away with some interesting points, but with Islam I found virtually nothing that was both unique and profound. The Qu'ran is the most sadistic of religious texts that I've read, and with the least philosophical complexity in it, and I have a very big set of ethical differences from the majority of Muslims that I've discussed anything with at length.

So I view Islam as a very much human-created religion, and one of the least valuable or interesting ones.

 

[technomage]

Out of the various religions I researched, Islam was the one that I found the least value or truth in.

With other religions I generally came away with some interesting points, but with Islam I found virtually nothing that was both unique and profound. The Qu'ran is the most sadistic of religious texts that I've read, and with the least philosophical complexity in it, and I have a very big set of ethical differences from the majority of Muslims that I've discussed anything with at length.

So I view Islam as a very much human-created religion, and one of the least valuable or interesting ones.

In the defense of Islam (a defense which can be extrapolated to any religious belief or lack thereof), I will point out that _if_ Islam is true, then the fault is with our standards of evaluation.

Obviously, I do not consider Islam to be true, or I would have already converted. But I also have to note the possibility of my own error in this issue.

 

[Farrukh]

Of course there is!

The Koran and prophet claim the heart is where knowledge is contained.

Nice points, thanks for the reply, i will give answer to each point you mentioned, i left charger in office and battery is near to dead, just a quick answer, Arabic word 'Qalb' has two meanings, one 'Heart' and other 'Intelligence', when Allah says Qalb of non-believers are sealed, it means their intelligence is sealed and not the organ that is pumping blood. It is a big misconception.

 

[Penumbra]

In the defense of Islam (a defense which can be extrapolated to any religious belief or lack thereof), I will point out that _if_ Islam is true, then the fault is with our standards of evaluation.

Obviously, I do not consider Islam to be true, or I would have already converted. But I also have to note the possibility of my own error in this issue.

Even if something were hypothetically true, it can be both true and yet also philosophically shallow.

Or even just as a natural example, there's a type of wasp in nature that finds tarantula spiders, injects them with paralysis venom and an egg, and then buries it alive, and then over the course of weeks that egg turns into larva and it eats its way through the still-living tarantula for its initial nourishment, avoiding organs until last so that it can prolong the spider's life for as many days of nourishment as possible. That's true, but few would call it beautiful or profound or anything like that simply because it's true. Even if a religion such as Islam were true, which I certainly don't think it is, then I'd view it kind of like that. Like true, but very unfortunate.

In addition to (and in part because of) the various troubling aspects of Islam, I also view it as one of the religions that I think is certainly untrue.

 

[Breathe]

and I'm curious about knowing answer for the question "have you ever found any bug in Islam?" if yes, please

Jahannam; I don't believe in it.
The wholly transcendent nature of God.
I don't really care for the "humans were created only to worship God".
How difficult it is to practise Islam because of sects of Islam, not Islam as such.

Just a few there.

These are things that 'bug' me.

 

[technomage]

Even if something were hypothetically true, it can be both true and yet also philosophically shallow.

Obviously. But conversely, an assessment of "philosophical depth" is somewhat subjective, and may be completely unnecessary. If the truth is simple, why add complexity, eh?

 

[Penumbra]

Obviously. But conversely, an assessment of "philosophical depth" is somewhat subjective, and may be completely unnecessary. If the truth is simple, why add complexity, eh?

Islam basically comes down to, "do a, b, and c, and believe this and go to paradise, and do x, y, and z, and fail to believe this, and you'll be tortured endlessly".

And it's presented as ethically acceptable and happily believed by followers. I've yet to see anyone explain that in terms that seems profound or interesting.

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

Nice points, thanks for the reply, i will give answer to each point you mentioned, i left charger in office and battery is near to dead, just a quick answer, Arabic word 'Qalb' has two meanings, one 'Heart' and other 'Intelligence', when Allah says Qalb of non-believers are sealed, it means their intelligence is sealed and not the organ that is pumping blood. It is a big misconception.

I'm not referring to the verse you're talking about!

 

[technomage]

Islam basically comes down to, "do a, b, and c, and believe this and go to paradise, and do x, y, and z, and fail to believe this, and you'll be tortured endlessly".

And it's presented as ethically acceptable and happily believed by followers. I've yet to see anyone explain that in terms that seems profound or interesting.

Well, obviously I cannot present it as profound or interesting, because I happen to agree with your assessment. Well, I supposed I could make the attempt at doing so as a rhetorical exercise, but I'm not terribly confident of my chances for success. Hey, if you're gonna sell a product, you have to persuade yourself that the product is worthwhile, eh?

But at the same time, there are philosophies and religions out there that _are_ profound or interesting, but that I am persuaded are factually incorrect. Profundity may give us much to think about, and the ability to capture our interest may make it easier to concentrate on the topic rather than being distracted, but _in and of themselves_, profundity or interest are not indicative of the truth of an argument.

If profundity or interest were indicative of truth, I have several theories regarding the Babylon 5 universe that we could discuss.

 

[Penumbra]

Well, obviously I cannot present it as profound or interesting, because I happen to agree with your assessment. Well, I supposed I could make the attempt at doing so as a rhetorical exercise, but I'm not terribly confident of my chances for success. Hey, if you're gonna sell a product, you have to persuade yourself that the product is worthwhile, eh?

But at the same time, there are philosophies and religions out there that _are_ profound or interesting, but that I am persuaded are factually incorrect. Profundity may give us much to think about, and the ability to capture our interest may make it easier to concentrate on the topic rather than being distracted, but _in and of themselves_, profundity or interest are not indicative of the truth of an argument.

If profundity or interest were indicative of truth, I have several theories regarding the Babylon 5 universe that we could discuss.

I didn't say that profundity or interest were indicative of truth.

 

[technomage]

I didn't say that profundity or interest were indicative of truth.

Ah! It sounded like part of your objection to Islam was your evaluation that Islam was shallow and uninteresting, therefore it could not possibly be true. I apologize for misunderstanding your views.

 

[columbus]

I'm impressed by the lack of atomic sarcasm in this thread. I've been a member of several forums where the OP would be savaged.

Tom