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Gravitational waves in Newton theory are 4-th order, in Einstein's are 2-nd!!!

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by questfortruth, Oct 23, 2017.

  1. questfortruth

    questfortruth Active Member

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    Let us count then: Not, no, No. Three times denial. Nihilism? Solipsism?
     
  2. questfortruth

    questfortruth Active Member

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    Reality and Existence are synonyms, not definitions.
     
  3. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    I clarify by distinguishing ─

    (a) objective existence, from

    (b) existence as a thing imagined which has no counterpart with objective existence.

    Things in the first category are regarded as 'real'. Reality is the totality of them.

    Fictitious beings, including their subset supernatural beings, are in the second category.
     
  4. questfortruth

    questfortruth Active Member

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    The fictional beings if recognized as objects inside human imagination, are objectively real as real are books of fairytales. You can touch the book, you can smell the book. You can record the brain activity while reading the fairytale book. All that is physical and objectively real.
     
  5. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Concepts are objectively real. They exists as physical biochemical / bioelectrical processes in a brain.

    The contents of the concept may be real or fictitious.

    Liken it to a page on a drawing pad. You can draw a representation of a person or landscape or object you're looking at. Or you can draw a unicorn. Or Sherlock. Or Donald Duck. Or God.
     
  6. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    So the earth is flat and the sun goes round it! Who'da thought!
     
  7. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Show me where it says either of those things. Are you really that ignorant?
     
  8. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    I suspect we may have been here before. Still, you really don't bother to read your bible, do you, so here, or here again, is a sample of quotes that will tell you a little about the cosmology of the ancients. Enjoy!

    1. Flat earth. The firmament (sky) is a fixed dome.
    Genesis 1
    2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters. ... 6 And God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 And God made the firmament and separated the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament. And it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

    2. Geocentry. The earth is flat and the sun goes round it.
    Joshua 10
    12 Then spoke Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD gave the Amorites over to the men of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel, “Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon, and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon.” 13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.

    3. Geocentry, earth immovable.
    1 Chronicles 16:
    29 Ascribe to the LORD the glory due his name; bring an offering, and come before him! Worship the LORD in holy array; 30 tremble before him, all the earth; yea, the world stands firm, never to be moved.

    4. Geocentry, earth immovable.
    Job 9
    6 who shakes the earth out of its place, and its pillars tremble; 7 who commands the sun, and it does not rise; who seals up the stars; 8 who alone stretched out the heavens, and trampled the waves of the sea;

    5. The firmament (sky) is a fixed dome
    Job 22
    12 “Is not God high in the heavens? See the highest stars, how lofty they are! 13 Therefore you say, ‘What does God know? Can he judge through the deep darkness? 14 Thick clouds enwrap him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the vault of heaven.’

    6. The dome of the sky rests on pillars.
    Job 26:
    11 “The pillars of heaven tremble, and are astounded at his rebuke.”

    7. The firmament (sky) is a fixed dome.
    Job 37
    18 Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?

    8. The stars are adjacent to each other and the earth on the fixed dome.
    Job 38
    7 when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    9. The earth is flat.
    Job 38:
    13 That it might take hold of the skirts of the earth, and the wicked be shaken out of it?

    10. The earth is flat. The sun goes round it.
    Psalm 19
    4 yet their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun, 5 which comes forth like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and like a strong man runs its course with joy. 6 Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them; and there is nothing hid from its heat.

    11. Geocentry. The earth is fixed.
    Psalm 93:
    1 The LORD reigns; he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed, he is girded with strength. Yea, the world is established; it shall never be moved;

    12. Geocentry. The earth is fixed.
    Psalm 96
    10 Say among the nations, “The LORD reigns! Yea, the world is established, it shall never be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity.”

    13. Geocentry. The earth is fixed. The earth is flat and rests on foundations.
    Psalm 102
    25 Of old thou didst lay the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

    14. Geocentry. The earth is fixed.
    Psalm 104
    5 Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken.

    15. Geocentry. The earth is fixed. The earth is flat.
    Ecclesiastes 1:
    5 “The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.”

    16. The earth is flat, like a table.
    Isaiah 11:
    12 And he will raise an ensign for the nations, and will assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

    17. The firmament (sky) is a fixed dome.
    Isaiah 14
    13 You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High.’

    18. The earth is flat, like a plate.
    Isaiah 40
    22 It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;

    19. The heavens go round the earth.
    Isaiah 45
    12 I made the earth, and created man upon it; it was my hands that stretched out the heavens, and I commanded all their host.

    20. Geocentry. The earth is fixed.
    Isaiah 48
    13 My hand laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I call to them, they stand forth together.

    21. The earth is flat like a table.
    Jeremiah 16:
    19 O LORD, my strength, and my stronghold, my refuge in the day of trouble, to thee shall the nations come from the ends of the earth, and say, Our fathers have inherited naught but lies, worthless and things in which there is no profit.

    22. The firmament (sky) is a fixed dome.
    Ezekiel 1
    22 Over the heads of the living creatures there was the likeness of a firmament, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads. 23 And under the firmament their wings were stretched out straight, one toward another; and each creature had two wings covering its body. 24 And when they went, I heard the sound of their wings like the sound of many waters, like the thunder of the Almighty, a sound of tumult like the sound of a host; when they stood still, they let down their wings. 25 And there came a voice from above the firmament over their heads; when they stood still, they let down their wings. 26 And above the firmament over their heads there was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like sapphire; and seated above the likeness of a throne was a likeness as it were of a human form.

    23. The firmament (sky) is a fixed dome.
    Ezekiel 10
    1 Then I looked, and behold, on the firmament that was over the heads of the cherubim there appeared above them something like a sapphire, in form resembling a throne.

    24. The earth is flat.
    Daniel 4
    10 The visions of my head as I lay in bed were these: I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth; and its height was great. 11 The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth

    25. The firmament (sky) is a fixed dome.
    Amos 9:
    6 who builds his upper chambers in the heavens and founds his vault upon the earth,

    26. The earth is flat.
    Matthew 4
    8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them.

    27. The firmament (sky) is a fixed dome. The stars are affixed to the firmament. If they come loose they will fall to earth.
    Matthew 24
    29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken;

    28. The earth is flat.
    Revelation 1
    7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, every one who pierced him; and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.

    29. The firmament (sky) is a fixed dome. The stars are affixed to it. If they come loose they will fall to earth. The earth is flat.
    Revelation 6
    13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale; 14 the sky vanished like a scroll that is rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the generals and the rich and the strong, and every one, slave and free, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;

    30. The earth is flat like a table.
    Revelation 7:
    1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea, or against any tree.
    By the way, why would you expect the bible to say anything else, considering that this was the understanding of those times and places where the quotes above were written?

    I never seem to get a clear answer to that question.
     
    #48 blü 2, Oct 24, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
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  9. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

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    I agree. There is always some doubt when it comes to scientific theories. Mathematics, otoh, is a priori truth. There is no doubt about the truth of mathematical equations.
     
  10. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

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    Doesn't the Bible claim that the Earth is a "circle" or "circular"? Circles are flat, last time I checked.
     
  11. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    I'm not aware of any use of that word when referring to the Earth.
     
  12. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    That is all saying the Bible is implying a flat non-Spherical Earth. Not once does it say the Earth is a flat non-spheroid, people just infer that it implies that. It does not.
     
  13. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

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    Here is one example:
    Isaiah 40:22 It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;
     
  14. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    I could see how that may lead a person to think he's referring to a flat Earth but he doesn't come out and say flat Earth. Especially when he's talking about spreading the heavens out like a tent, which is 3 dimensional.
     
  15. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

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    Circles are always flat. And, the heavens are not what we are discussing, so that is a straw man. It does say that the heavens are 3 dimensional. And, obviously we live in a 3 dimensional universe. But, if the earth is a CIRCLE with the heavens ABOVE that earth, the earth is necessarily flat. There is no "above" a sphere in space, as it would all depend on perspective.
     
  16. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    No, I disagree. He is not referring to a flat Earth.
     
  17. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Once again you didn't address the question at the end.

    On what basis would you expect the ancients to know modern cosmology? Why are you in the least surprised that their words represent the views of their time and place?

    Why do you want to pretend otherwise when I've just given you thirty examples of what they thought, in their own words as it were?

    Goodness, Jesus didn't know enough about ordinary hygiene, let alone germ theory, to wash his hands before dining! (Mark 7:14+)

    My definition of truth is 'conformity with reality'.

    What's yours?
     
    #57 blü 2, Oct 24, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
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  18. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

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    Why do you disagree? Why do you think he wasn't referring to a circle if he said "circle"?
     
  19. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Your definition of truth involves assuming that a flat Earth is implied. It isn't. Not once.
     
  20. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Circle is not equal to flat Earth. A spheroid has an infinite amount of rough circles going around it. When you look at the Earth you see a "circle." Not once does the Bible refer to a flat circle. Not once.
     
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