1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Does God Predetermine When We Will Die?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by rusra02, Jul 8, 2016.

  1. rusra02

    rusra02 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Messages:
    5,758
    Ratings:
    +498
    I don't think that he does. While we are under sentence of death, I believe many die prematurely due to their own or others actions. For example, a horrific, fatal car crash caused by a drunk or distracted driver is the fault of the driver, not God. I believe the Bible teaches we can extend or shorten our lives by our own actions and decisions. Moses told the Israelites: "I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life and by him you will endure a long time in the land that Jehovah swore to give to your forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." (Deuteronomy 30:19,20
    What do you think?
     
  2. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    22,110
    Ratings:
    +17,181
    Religion:
    Druidry
    Rusra, could you please specify which faith groups you wish to limit this debate to? It's not clear from your OP.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Demonslayer

    Demonslayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    3,144
    Ratings:
    +1,984
    Religion:
    None
    Do you believe, though, that God sometimes saves people from such accidents? For example I've heard religious folks talk about something like a bus crash where 50 people were on the bus, and 3 people survived...one of them being the loved one of the person telling the story. They refer to this as a miracle.

    So do you believe that? That God sometimes saves a person from an accident that would have otherwise been the fault of the driver?
     
  4. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,756
    Ratings:
    +2,048
    Religion:
    Øneness
    God already knows before the foundations of the earth, when, and how we will die...God created time, thus already knows until the end. :innocent:
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    16,416
    Ratings:
    +6,395
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    And to go you one further, I think we are that One God consciousness you talk about but currently in a temporary illusion of separateness.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    17,151
    Ratings:
    +2,988
    Since Jesus will reign for 1,000-years over Earth that does Not mean an end to time.
    At the end of Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth, then Jesus hands back to his God ' God's kingdom ' - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26

    If God chose to know when and how we will die then God would Not have the words of Ecclesiastes 7:17 recorded for us.
    Didn't Jesus make plain the people of Luke 13:4-5 where just at the wrong place at the wrong time?
    It's just time and unforeseen events which happen to everyone - Ecclesiastes 9:11 B
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    17,151
    Ratings:
    +2,988
    God does Not interfere with our choices. Accidents are called accidents because they happen accidently and Not on purpose.
    It is just timing and unforeseen events befalling everyone - Ecclesiastes 7:17; Ecclesiastes 9:11; Luke 13:4-5
     
  8. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Messages:
    6,886
    Ratings:
    +1,541
    Religion:
    Islam
    I totally agree with that..
    Almighty God knowing when we will die does not mean that it's "predetermined"
    ie. that Almighty God makes all the decisions that cause us to die
     
  9. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    17,151
    Ratings:
    +2,988
    In Scripture the living-on-Earth humble ' sheep'-like people of Matthew 25:31-33 do Not die.
    They can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth, right into the start of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins.
    Under Christ's millennium-long day of governing over Earth, then our last enemy ' death ' will be No more - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8
     
  10. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Messages:
    6,886
    Ratings:
    +1,541
    Religion:
    Islam
    Are you one of them? :)
     
  11. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,390
    Ratings:
    +2,485
    I'm going to agree with you on this one.

    I don't read the Bible as saying YHVH predetermines death.

    Knowing when a person will die, - is not the same as causing that death.

    Deuteronomy is a Jewish text, thus, - "I have put life and death before you" - means choice, and it continues - "you must choose life..."

    They believed ALL people both GOOD and BAD went to Sheol. However the bad are judged to continue in death. So choose right - chose life.

    *
     
  12. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    17,151
    Ratings:
    +2,988
    Please take notice that there is the ingathering of three (3) groups mentioned at Matthew 25:31-33; Matthew 25:40
    Jesus judges, or bases his judgement, on the reaction of how people treat his ' spiritual ' brothers on Earth - Matthew 25:40
    So, besides classed as being a sheep or a goat there are also Jesus' spiritual ' brothers.
    The one who endures to the end ( end of one's life, or til the coming of Christ ) - Matthew 24:13 is the one who is saved.
    Those who are alive on Earth at the soon coming ' time of separation ' and Jesus judges as being a humble sheep are ' one of them '.
    I am pleased to want to remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth, when Jesus starts his 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth.
    So, that would put me in the earthly ' sheep ' category. ( Jesus' spiritual ' brothers ' are in the heavenly category - 1 Corinthians 15:50; 1 Corinthians 15:23 )
     
  13. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    17,151
    Ratings:
    +2,988
    If I may take the liberty to add just a fine point in connection to ' good and bad ' there are the ' wicked '.
    There is going to be a resurrection of the just and unjust, the righteous and unrighteous - Acts of the Apostles 24:15, whereas the wicked will be destroyed forever
    - Psalms 92:7; Jeremiah 51:57,39
     
  14. rusra02

    rusra02 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Messages:
    5,758
    Ratings:
    +498
    No. Rather, chance or "time and unexpected events" may cause one person to survive and another to perish.
     
  15. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    22,181
    Ratings:
    +10,934
    Religion:
    Hindu, bhakta srī kṛṣṇasya
    *** Mod Post ***

    Thread moved to
    Religious Debates.
     
  16. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,390
    Ratings:
    +2,485
    This shows the later Christian confusion about Jesus' Tanakh teachings.

    Jesus was a Jew - he taught from Tanakh. The Messiah judges both good and bad whom have already died, or now die, and await his Final Judgment in Sheol.


    Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

    Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

    Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

    Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
     
  17. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    37,321
    Ratings:
    +13,288
    Does god determine when we die before we do?

    No. I just think he just knows. Then, if a christian feels god determined when they were born why not death? What makes death a "different animal"?

    How I define god (life), yes our death is predetermined. We just dont know when and without us, there is no word or definition of death just an endless circle of birth, age, and death.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. DawudTalut

    DawudTalut Peace be upon you.

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    4,841
    Ratings:
    +1,352
    Religion:
    Islam DIR
    Peace be on you.
    A bridge or a car has full life expectancy calculated by engineers.
    But these things may get damage before full life.

    So as our Maker knows what is our full life time, but meanwhile many things may happen; mistakes, disease etc.
    [Quran 6:3]He it is Who created you from clay, and then He decreed a term. And there is another term fixed with Him. Yet you doubt!


    But if there is Divine promise, or Will of God that He will keep that person, no matter what are circumstances, the person attains full life.
    [5:68] O Messenger! convey to the people what has been revealed to thee from thy Lord; and if thou do it not, thou hast not conveyed His Message at all. And Allah will protect thee from men. Surely, Allah guides not the disbelieving people.


    In some cases, due to acceptance of Prayer or any grace of God, life span in increased and person reaches its full age.

    Living a pious life, helps attain full life span.
     
  19. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Messages:
    31,987
    Ratings:
    +15,492
    Religion:
    Atheist, Advaita (Non-duality), Orthodox Hindu
    "Does God Predetermine When We Will Die?"

    First questions first. Is there one?
    The genes predetermine death to a certain degree, followed by how the person lived (ate to live or lived to ate, etc.), and then, circumstances.
     
  20. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Messages:
    6,886
    Ratings:
    +1,541
    Religion:
    Islam
    You said "They can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth, right into the start of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins"

    So does that mean that you will not physically die like everybody else does?
     
Loading...