If God:
- knew about it ahead of time,
- could have changed it, and
- chose not to change it
... then it happened because God decided that it should happen.
-
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Does God Predetermine When We Will Die?
- Thread starter rusra02
- Start date
- knew about it ahead of time,
- could have changed it, and
- chose not to change it
... then it happened because God decided that it should happen.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
I think He does. Our deaths don't happen by "accident" other than from our limited perspective. Someone may be shocked that someone was smacked by a bus, but God could see the bus driver and knew that it was going to suck for the victim.
Plenty of dead folks who chose life. Nobody became immortal literally by choice.
If Jesus loves his followers, why stay for only a fraction of human history?
Is he too busy playing video games?
There are plenty of youtube videos showing us idiots who survived the likelihood of an early death.
"Reverse Darwinism ... survival of the most idiotic." -- Alan Grant, Jurassic Park 3
But it isn't unforseen by God, though. WE have limited details about how our lives are playing out, but God doesn't.
Be a "Good Christian" before he gets here. That way, the world can be a better place anyway, whether he comes or not.
Agreed, but once damage occurs, you can alter the life trajectory of the bridge.
Engineers design bridges based on the probabilities associated with the loads they experience. When a bridge fails, it's because its loading, materials, or construction didn't match the engineer's expectations... or because the engineer made a mistake.
An engineer who knows with certainty that a bridge will be subject to some load but doesn't design the bridge to handle it is willfully incompetent.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Not being able to add days to your life may refer to the 120-year limit God eventually specified (which has remained true with very few exceptions and no extreme exceptions) -essentially so that he did not have to be frustrated with man any longer than absolutely necessary.
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
It would not be impossible for "God" -a being able to number every hair on every head -to determine the exact time of every death -but that is not to say there would be reason to do so.
The following might be true only from our perspective -but perhaps God only specifies that which is absolutely necessary.
Ecc 9:11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.
The exact times of the deaths of certain people are specified in the bible -most notably Christ...
Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
...but perhaps not every last person.
If given the opportunity, it would not be impossible for man to eventually reverse-engineer himself to the point of reversing the changes made which limited his lifespan -or even to even to eventually design an invulnerable body (not that it would help previous humans) -but given the timeline of events outlined in the bible, such things will be made available before we are able to accomplish them ourselves.
If we neared such abilities -and God decided it was not a good idea -he could set us back as he did at the tower of Babel -which was to prevent us from accomplishing anything we could imagine while we lacked the discipline and understanding to prevent chaos and catastrophe. What is specifically written, however, is that God will again prevent us from doing what we otherwise would -namely destroying all flesh by our warfare (which would likely have happened much sooner if speech was not confused at Babel) -after which will be a process of bringing many to final perfection and giving them invulnerable bodies with extreme creative power and a much more direct interface.
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Job 14:5 Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;
Gen 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
Gen 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mic 4:3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
I don't believe God chooses to foreknow every detail of our lives. Having given us the gift of free will, he does not map out our lives ahead of time, but does urge us to make right decisions. (Proverbs 27:11) I believe God has an appointed time to end this existing system, and meanwhile mankind will continue their ruinous course. (Revelation 11:18)
Subhankar Zac
Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
Yes, God predetermines death of all beings.
If Adam had Not broken God's Law, then healthy Adam would be physically alive today on Earth. Death did Not enter into Eden until after Adam sinned.
None of the humble ' sheep'-like people of Matthew 25:31-33,37 have to die because ' enemy death ' will stop when Christ beings his governing over Earth- 1 Corinthians 15:26
According to Ecclesiastes 7:17 we can be foolish and die prematurely.
God also purposes a time when 'enemy death' will be No more on Earth ever again - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8; Revelation 21:4-5
So, we can say God predetermines life ( everlasting life ) for those who are willing to 'repent ' so as Not to 'perish' (be destroyed) during the coming great tribulation - Revelation 7:14
The bus driver has free will as do the passengers - time and unforeseen events happen to all of us - Ecclesiastes 9:11 B; Ecclesiastes 7:17
Adam, nor the angels, were Never created to be immortal. Adam was offered everlasting life on Earth as long as he did Not break God's Law. Obedient angels everlasting life in heaven.
That fraction ( 1,000 years ) is all that is necessary to have Earth and its inhabitants come to live life on a beautiful paradisical Earth forever.
At the end of the thousand years, then Jesus simply hands back God's Kingdom to God because his job is done for us - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26
God's kingdom does Not last a fraction of time, but Jesus, being as King of God's Kingdom, only governs for that millennial-long fraction day.
At the end of that millennium-long day we will have the same one-on-one relationship with God that Adam originally had before he broke God's Law. ( No mediator needed )
Yes be a ' Good Christian ' and whom we reach does help make the world a better place - James 2:8
Those who willfully refuse to make the world a better place will be brought to ruin - Revelation 11:18 B.
muhammad_isa
Well-Known Member
The understanding of "predetermination" is very important.
It doesn't mean that Almighty God has made decisions for us..
muhammad_isa
Well-Known Member
@URAVIP2ME
You said "They can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth, right into the start of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins"
So does that mean that you will not physically die like everybody else does?
You said "They can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth, right into the start of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins"
So does that mean that you will not physically die like everybody else does?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
It actually does. If I have "free will", then that simply is not "predetermination". OTOH, if I am "predetermined", then my actions must have been planned in advance-- this is what "predestination" is all about.
Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
It actually does. It means God is God. It means that God is Insurmountable.
When you take ownership of anything, you steal from God. But God is Almighty, as you say, and relinquishes no power to anyone or anything else, but rather is the Power that sustains all else. When you claim free will, you commit autolatry, and idolatry is born from there. No one has any ownership, or freedom of their own. No one may truthfully claim any power, or anything whatsoever, when they acknowledge the Almighty in truth.
Subhankar Zac
Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
There is no Isaiah or Corinthians in the Vedas or the Gita.
Next time, stick to Christian DIR.
Neither do I follow your texts.
muhammad_isa
Well-Known Member
No .. actually it is not.
The word might be misleading .. while you cannot change what has been "predetermined", that does not mean that you are unable to make decisions ie. possess a free-will
Why? Almighty God is aware of the future .. in fact He does not exist in the universe as He created it. ie. He is responsible for space & time
Almighty God is not a person in a room with a clock on the wall
..so, it basically means God is aware of what we will choose. That does not mean that supplication to Him is futile .. you have no idea what your destiny is, do you? I certainly don't.
Don't forget, God is aware of our supplications before we make them
I want to apologize to you as I was merely trying to indicate that there are points of view that God does Not predetermine (fate) when we will die.
If God did, then why bother to stop at a stop sign or stop at a red light ?
Again, I am sorry for the interruption.
Peace be to you.
Subhankar Zac
Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
Because the understanding of Abrahamic gods are very meager that deal with superficial aspects of the body and fear mongering rituals.
Whose understanding of the Abrahamic ' God ' are very meager, etc., and what fear-mongering rituals ?
What did Jesus teach that is fear-mongering ?