Do You Favor Belief Over Knowledge and Curiosity?

[SalixIncendium]

While this is a parody, I cannot tell you how many times I've had such a debate with religious fundamentalists.

For those of you who refuse to waver on your beliefs in the presence of truth presented through objective evidence or scientific theory, what brings you to reject these truths? Comfort? Fear? Pride? Poor fashion sense?

Why compels you persist in arguing for you beliefs?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

While this is a parody, I cannot tell you how many times I've had such a debate with religious fundamentalists.

For those of you who refuse to waver on your beliefs in the presence of truth presented through objective evidence or scientific theory, what brings you to reject these truths? Comfort? Fear? Pride? Poor fashion sense?

Why compels you persist in arguing for you beliefs?

Any religion that tells you you have to "believe" in a set of supernatural propositions that have essentially no evidence to support them is a joke. Furthermore, the idea that your "beliefs" should determine whether you go to heaven or hell is also a pathetic joke.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

To counterpose {belief} to {knowledge and curiosity} is simply dumb.

 

[SalixIncendium]

To counterpose {belief} to {knowledge and curiosity} is simply dumb.

While I will agree with you in principle, let's dial this back to the context of the video...

Even when presented with the truth of Penn and Teller's magic trick, or Lucy's Jesus sawing her in half trick, Mr. Deity chooses to cover his ears because he wishes to cling tightly to his belief that these illusions are truly magical. He goes on to expand this notion onto the Tree of Knowledge and why he told Adam and Eve not to eat from it (spoilers in the video).

I've experienced such behaviors IRL and here on the forum. Despite evidence that contradicts their tightly held beliefs, some choose to cling to these beliefs and reject the evidence, which is what this thread is about.

 

[Sir Doom]

So, are you wondering if anyone feels blatant ignorance is a good thing? I'm gonna guess you won't get many takers.

 

[SalixIncendium]

So, are you wondering if anyone feels blatant ignorance is a good thing?

No.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

While this is a parody, I cannot tell you how many times I've had such a debate with religious fundamentalists.

For those of you who refuse to waver on your beliefs in the presence of truth presented through objective evidence or scientific theory, what brings you to reject these truths? Comfort? Fear? Pride? Poor fashion sense?

Why compels you persist in arguing for you beliefs?

"Please tell the Court: When and Why did you stop beating your spouse?"

Seriously, though, most people who hold a belief of the sort you are wanting to examine do so because they have had an experience...and maybe more than one.

Perhaps they haven't done a lot of critical thinking about that experience, and how it relates to 'reality,' but I think you will find a great many HAVE done so...and come to a different conclusion...but you seem to be assuming that believers do not ever critically consider their beliefs...

 

[Sir Doom]

Then... what?

You literally compared fundamentalism to a man covering his ears and making noise.

I get the comparison, but that's correctly identified as blatant ignorance if you ask me.

What I'm not understanding is where the debate is supposed to be at? You won't get any fundamentalists in this thread, I can just about guarantee that and even if you do, its not like you can expect them to willing see themselves as the ignoramus in the video, can you?

So what's left? Do you want like-minded individuals to come and debate the accuracy of the parody? You want to someone to present an argument that the video is inaccurate? You've done that yourself! What do you want to debate?

 

[SalixIncendium]

"Please tell the Court: When and Why did you stop beating your spouse?"

Seriously, though, most people who hold a belief of the sort you are wanting to examine do so because they have had an experience...and maybe more than one.

Perhaps they haven't done a lot of critical thinking about that experience, and how it relates to 'reality,' but I think you will find a great many HAVE done so...and come to a different conclusion...but you seem to be assuming that believers do not ever critically consider their beliefs...

I'm not sure how much you have associated with fundamentalists, but we are talking about two entirely different groups here. There are those I know and have debated with IRL have not had such an experience. They believe what they do because that's what they were told to believe, and they cling blindly to that beliefs despite evidence to the contrary. The ones I've debated with have a common thread: fear of what will come after death.

 

[shunyadragon]

To counterpose {belief} to {knowledge and curiosity} is simply dumb.

Knowledge and belief should be harmony unfortunately most justify their belief with a selective reference to knowledge.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Then... what?

I thought the questions posed in the OP make that quite clear.

You literally compared fundamentalism to a man covering his ears and making noise.

I get the comparison, but that's correctly identified as blatant ignorance if you ask me.

Your opinion is noted.

What I'm not understanding is where the debate is supposed to be at? You won't get any fundamentalists in this thread, I can just about guarantee that and even if you do, its not like you can expect them to willing see themselves as the ignoramus in the video, can you?

So what's left? Do you want like-minded individuals to come and debate the accuracy of the parody? You want to someone to present an argument that the video is inaccurate? You've done that yourself! What do you want to debate?

If you don't feel it's been made clear in the OP, it's about rationalization of belief...but if you wish to go in a different direction... we can start with the need for dangling prepositions and move on to insulting groups of people based on assumptions of another's intent.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I'm not sure how much you have associated with fundamentalists, but we are talking about two entirely different groups here. There are those I know and have debated with IRL have not had such an experience. They believe what they do because that's what they were told to believe, and they cling blindly to that beliefs despite evidence to the contrary. The ones I've debated with have a common thread: fear of what will come after death.

Well, most of the fundamentalists that I've known believe because they have had a powerful, personal experience, one that to them trumps 'merely' material or human explanations, those rooted in objective evidence or scientific theory.

To them, "truth" is not subject science...it is rooted in personal experience.

I don't know that fundamentalists are blindly clinging to beliefs because of fear as you assert (or "Comfort? ... Pride? Poor fashion sense?" as you said in the OP); I certainly can assume that something like this underlies their beliefs, but I'm not exactly sure how you can be so certain...nor that how you are going about asking about this is going to get anything except silence from the group you apparently are trying to ask...

 

[Avoice1C]

While this is a parody, I cannot tell you how many times I've had such a debate with religious fundamentalists.

For those of you who refuse to waver on your beliefs in the presence of truth presented through objective evidence or scientific theory, what brings you to reject these truths? Comfort? Fear? Pride? Poor fashion sense?

Why compels you persist in arguing for you beliefs?

I'm relatively familiar with most scientific thought and find little that rules one, my faith, or the other, science, out. Even the scientific age of the earth. The Hebrew word for day changes meaning in their scripture. In Genesis 1 it means something like a passage of time. Day could be a normal earthen day or an eon or billions of years. The large sea creatures were killed off in the flood. Which may have happened when a meteor hit the earth or when the strait linked the ocean with the Mediterranean.

 

[Sir Doom]

I thought the questions posed in the OP make that quite clear.

It seems clear that you would like someone to climb into a box you've made so you can tell them how wrong they are. Of course, as I said you won't get many takers. What you will get, of course is lot of back patting.

Your opinion is noted.

I doubt it, but then that's not really the point is it?

If you don't feel it's been made clear in the OP, it's about rationalization of belief...but if you wish to go in a different direction... we can start with the need for dangling prepositions and move on to insulting groups of people based on assumptions of another's intent.

I'm shrewd. It makes me jump ahead sometimes.

So, it's about rationalization of belief. The character in your video is rationalizing his belief in magic. The hypothetical respondent you speak of would also be rationalizing their beliefs. Your rhetorical questions call for someone who rationalizes their beliefs to explain why they rationalize their beliefs. And somehow you don't get how that won't be happening. Instead, you will get people who agree with your sentiment vicariously speaking for the hypothetical respondent who won't be joining us. And you'll also get people like me who wonder at your goal.

 

[bobhikes]

While this is a parody, I cannot tell you how many times I've had such a debate with religious fundamentalists.

For those of you who refuse to waver on your beliefs in the presence of truth presented through objective evidence or scientific theory, what brings you to reject these truths? Comfort? Fear? Pride? Poor fashion sense?

Why compels you persist in arguing for you beliefs?

I liked it, I liked his view. It is all about life perspective. What is the actual point to living (with or without god). The unfortunate truth is that the point is different for all of us and yet we want to believe the point is the same for all of us.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Imagination (make believe) is more important than knowledge.

 

[Deidre]

I think that you don't need to favor one over the other, to be honest. You can desire or thirst for knowledge, and still also favor belief/faith.

 

[Terese]

I see them as equally important. My belief in my religion does not stifle my knowledge and curiosity of things.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Then... what?

You literally compared fundamentalism to a man covering his ears and making noise.

I get the comparison, but that's correctly identified as blatant ignorance if you ask me.

What I'm not understanding is where the debate is supposed to be at? You won't get any fundamentalists in this thread, I can just about guarantee that and even if you do, its not like you can expect them to willing see themselves as the ignoramus in the video, can you?

So what's left? Do you want like-minded individuals to come and debate the accuracy of the parody? You want to someone to present an argument that the video is inaccurate? You've done that yourself! What do you want to debate?

Just a non-sequitor I love the comic book theme in your signature.

 

[YmirGF]

While this is a parody, I cannot tell you how many times I've had such a debate with religious fundamentalists.

For those of you who refuse to waver on your beliefs in the presence of truth presented through objective evidence or scientific theory, what brings you to reject these truths? Comfort? Fear? Pride? Poor fashion sense?

Why compels you persist in arguing for you beliefs?

I really dislike the fellow who plays Mr. Deity ...

That said, I do favor understanding over imagination, but even there, imagination is an incredibly powerful tool. In regards to my own experiences, there are things that science simply cannot explain as of yet, and so I'm left to my own devices and creativity. At least I have the good sense not to pin all my hopes on what I think might be and pay very close attention to the details of what is.