WalterTrull
Godfella
The problem I see is a misunderstanding of time. It doesn't actually exist. If you put all the creation stuff in the bible in present tense, it makes more sense. "In the beginning is the word". Very, very cool.
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Do you believe God’s word or man’s?
- Thread starter Ted Evans
- Start date
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
You're a Christian who doesn't believe any of the Bible is God's word?
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
To God everything is present tense. Time doesn't limit Him in any way. That's one reason why He says, "I AM."
God created and controls time.
PureX
Veteran Member
Many millions of Christians do not believe the Bible to contain "God's words". In fact, most, I would imagine. Inerrant literalists are a minority among Christians. Most Christians believe the Bible is exactly what it claims to be: a divinely inspired and useful theological and spiritual guide, written by men.
Also, I am not a religious Christian.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
You don't think Exodus contains God's words?
FYI: debates for a single faith should be in the same faith debate section.
PureX
Veteran Member
No. It contains some men's words about how they experienced and understood their "God", in their time. If we find their stories and editorials about God useful to us, today, that's fine. If we don't, that's fine as well. There is no logical reason for us to idolize their texts, except, perhaps, if we're trying to use this false idolization to dress ourselves up in the illusion of divine authority that we get from such a claim.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Of course man's. If you go by scripture, you notice it's man's testimony and man's experience. Without the bible, as a christian, how would you know god?
Tumah
Veteran Member
For the sake of devil's advocate:
The only difference between the two words is that one is in plural and one is in singular. The singular construct of "yom" is the same "yom". Its context that decides whether its being used that way or not.
Here's an example from Lev. 12:4 that uses the absolute and construct state:
ושלשים יום ושלשת ימים תשב בדמי טהרה בכל קדש לא תגע ואל המקדש לא תבא עד מלאת ימי טהרה
The literal translation:
And thirty day(yom) and three of days she shall sit in blood of purity. To all holy she shall not touch and to the Temple she shall not come until completion of days of (y'mei) purity.
(The construct state is actually found in the three italicized places as well. Twice in feminine and the middle one in masculine)
As you can see, the change to y'mei doesn't mean "a time period". We know the "days of purity" are "thirty day and three of days". So there's no reason to give this word a non-literal translation here.
An example of the construct in the singular is Joel 2:2:
יום חשך ואפלה יום ענן וערפל
Day of (yom) darkness and gloom, day of (yom) cloud and dense cloud...
Incidentally, from the context, it seems unlikely that its meant to be a literal 12 or 24 hour period, but a time period (perhaps a short one).
So what's possible is that the concept of a "day" can also be used in a figure of speech to indicate a period of time, whether in the singular or plural. Perhaps the difference relates to whether the period of time is long or short.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
To be fair, if they're honest then they have to reconcile it with science, otherwise it has to get tossed into the trash.
I can self identify as such, yes.
WalterTrull
Godfella
Uhmm... probably splitting hairs. My take: "In the beginning is the word." So... everything that is. is God's word, - must include our words too, donchathink?
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Right. Anyone can appoint themselves god's "middleman" and then presume to speak on 'his' behalf. That's why we have thousands of different religions, with thousands of different variations of each.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Why is it so hard to accept the fact that ancient savages might've been wrong about a few things, and that even though they may have *thought* that they spoke for god, they may not have actually done so.
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From Genesis 4
Then the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it....”
....
...The LORD said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground.
From I Timothy 6
which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see.
Taking the above literally Man is mortal, God is invisible, sin crouches, and blood speaks; and if you don't believe what I say correctly describes what the Bible says you can't be a Christian. I'm very concerned about you without my proper instruction, and I care about your soul. Put it into my care. Its impossible for Jesus to work with you without some training, so come on over here and get certified by me. I'll make sure you're a real Christian, and there's no fee although a donation is recommended.
Then the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it....”
....
...The LORD said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground.
From I Timothy 6
which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see.
Taking the above literally Man is mortal, God is invisible, sin crouches, and blood speaks; and if you don't believe what I say correctly describes what the Bible says you can't be a Christian. I'm very concerned about you without my proper instruction, and I care about your soul. Put it into my care. Its impossible for Jesus to work with you without some training, so come on over here and get certified by me. I'll make sure you're a real Christian, and there's no fee although a donation is recommended.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Speaking of Exodus, what do you think of 21:7-11? Now if those were actually god's words, then he needs to be slapped right out of the clouds.
Such facts as the age of the earth, the fact that evolution is what is responsible for all the forms of animal life as we have it on the planet, the fact the sun is the center of the solar systems, and so on and so forth. There are many Christians who deny these things against all evidences. I consider that weak, or frankly non-existent faith. So why do you deny these are facts? Do you claim to have evidence to the contrary which is accepted by specialists in those given fields of science, or is it a matter of 'faith' for you, "faith" that science is nuts and doesn't know what the hell it's talking about?
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QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
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QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
That would depend on what you are claiming is God's word and what evidence you provide to support such a notion.