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Do you believe God’s word or man’s?

PureX

Veteran Member
Uhmm... probably splitting hairs. My take: "In the beginning is the word." So... everything that is. is God's word, - must include our words too, donchathink?
Appropriately translated, it says that in the beginning was the "logos": the divine plan, or ideological 'blueprint', for all that which would come to exist, and occur. This is what the term "logos" referred to in ancient Greek. They believed in a complex realm of ideological perfection, upon/within/and through which the material world coalesced into being. It is to an ideological realm of perfect 'logic' that this writer is referring. Not to any words of ours, biblical or otherwise. If we insist on including biblical text as somehow part of this "logos", then why wouldn't we include any and all other texts as well? And the thoughts behind all those texts, too. And ... well, you get the idea. The "logos" would become something kin to a Zen state. Everything = nothing, at which point contemplation of it becomes a meaningless exercise.
 
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pearl

Well-Known Member
God has offered mankind no 'words' that I am aware of. And pretending that man's words carry God's authority is idolatry.

I would agree, God offered inspiration, man gave us the words. If the words offered by the one who received such inspiration through mystical experience, Moses, the Prophets, Jesus, God's authority may be claimed.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
1) This is intended for those who say they are Christians but...

I feel l must congratulate you on your (presumably) recent promotion to Christ's Press Secretary. I mean, now that you're speaking on his behalf about who is or isn't a Christian.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
If a Christian believes that the creation accounts are not historically or scientifically accurate, but that it possibly is allegory, and yet they believe and act like Christians, what's the problem? Sheeesh!
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
God has offered mankind no 'words' that I am aware of. And pretending that man's words carry God's authority is idolatry.

Great post. I've long thought pretending that man's words carry god's authority is ridiculous, but I had not made the connection to idolatry until you mentioned it. Brilliant.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
If a Christian believes that the creation accounts are not historically or scientifically accurate, but that it possibly is allegory, and yet they believe and act like Christians, what's the problem? Sheeesh!


Don't you know? Christ came into the world so as to make salvation possible for theologians, and only for theologians. You want to be saved? First get a degree from Harvard Divinity School.
 

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
So being a Christian in your book means denying modern science in favor of a literal interpretation of Genesis?

It depends on your definition of "modern science" as it relates to the creation of the universe in the beginning. If that includes the universe being created from nothing and that "modern science" cannot answer where space, matter, energy and time came from, "in the beginning" then the answer is yes.

Can you tell me, using modern science, where space, matter, energy and time came from and from what? I would also like to know the sequence in which they came into existence or if it was all at the same time, can you answer that?

In case you overlook the intent, this has nothing to do with explaining the process after the BB, it is about "in the beginning", before the BB and I would like to see empirical evidence for your answers.
 

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
Okay, even if what you say is valid about the words being written specifically meaning 24 hour periods, why does that matter?

It matters because God claims that He created the universe in six days so either He did or He lied.

It's still a metaphor.

Says who and on what grounds? Remember, this is about Christians who profess to believe the Judeo-Christian scriptures, it has nothing to do with "modern science"

God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.” (Genesis 1:5, NASB95)

What words in that verse are metaphors, what is their meaning and what do you base your answers on?

Do you believe scripture is the inspired word of God, yes or no?
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
No. It contains some men's words about how they experienced and understood their "God", in their time. If we find their stories and editorials about God useful to us, today, that's fine. If we don't, that's fine as well. There is no logical reason for us to idolize their texts, except, perhaps, if we're trying to use this false idolization to dress ourselves up in the illusion of divine authority that we get from such a claim.

What do you believe about Jesus?
 

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
but how you literalize them into meaning Genesis should be taken as a scientific explanation of our planet's origins.

Can you quote me even implying, much less stating, that Genesis should be taken as a "scientific explanation"?

Let me give you my analogy of the supernatural...

In the beginning, God created the heavens and earth.

In the beginning, there was nothing and then nothing exploded and over billlllions and billllions of years, the universe was created.

Which one of those is a "scientific explanation"?
 

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
That's a problem, for a Christian living in a day and age when we have actual scientific data.

Great, then all you must do for me to accept your view is to explain where and how, space, matter, energy and time came into existence, using "actual scientific data" can you do that?

I don't believe the authors of the Genesis stories (there are two of them)

And your proof of that is what?


were trying to grapple with questions of science? Do you? If so, then on what basis do you claim this?

No. And I have never suggested otherwise. I would suggest you go back and read the OP very carefully, or perhaps, deflection is intentional. As it is obvious to anyone with average intelligence to see you want to make this a science vs religion topic rather than a challenge for those who say they are Christians. [one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ]
 

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
Of course. You can start with the questions I posed in my response. What question do you have of me?
OK, I took you at your word, I answered your first questions, all of them and then asked some in response. We shall see if your word is dependable or if it is not. Unfortunately, my experience has not been good with this issue, hope this one is different.
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
God tells us things in a way we can understand them.
And apparently fundamentalist Christians can only understand things in simple terms.

You and your scientists like to beat around the bush a lot, make assumed truths and speculate a lot. Millions of words and still no hard facts.
By all means.....keep tying Christianity to this anti-science attitude. :thumbsup:
 
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