Do you believe God’s word or man’s?

[Grandliseur]

That claim is made by numerous Christians, the problem that I have run into is that many want to make all scripture that does not fit their narrative out as a metaphor, and idiom, symbolism etc. I do not, I take it as it is literally written when it makes perfectly good sense as it is. I would be happy to discuss scripture with anyone but if every time I quote a scripture that goes against a narrative, all of sudden it is a metaphor. I am not trying to "intimidate" any one, I believe that God said what He meant and He means what He said and I do my best to defend His word, as it is written.

How often do we hear about how many different Christian denominations there is and use that for rebuttals? How many would there be if everyone took the scriptures as they literally read. Yes, there are hundreds of metaphors, idioms, and symbolism used in scripture, many of which are explained by Scripture itself and those that are not are more than likely due to our misunderstanding, IMO.

So it is up to you, I am all for a serious discussion but I have had enough of, "God didn't say that man did, that is not what God meant, that is only what you say He meant". If you notice, I very seldom quote commentary from others as there is always another commentator with a conflicting view. If it cannot be proven with scripture, as it is written, then IMO, that is all that it is, an opinion.

I thought when reading your post - that it could have been myself having written it. I forgot what the subject was, but if you want to discuss a Biblical topic and see if we can agree or not, that is OK with me.

 

[Sanzbir]

If you aren't a Christian, why did you get involved in the first place ? The OP was for Christians.

I have a strong interest and knowledge in theology and scripture. And I a member of a religion that accepts the Biblical scriptures as valid. And I have an interest in discussion and learning what other people think and how they arrive at those conclusions.

Now want to address the points I made now or does my above identity somehow invalidate any points I could make?? Is anything I said wrong, in your opinion?? If so, what?? And why?? I'd be interested to know.

 

[shmogie]

I have a strong interest and knowledge in theology and scripture. And I a member of a religion that accepts the Biblical scriptures as valid. And I have an interest in discussion and learning what other people think and how they arrive at those conclusions.

Now want to address the points I made now or does my above identity somehow invalidate any points I could make?? Is anything I said wrong, in your opinion?? If so, what?? And why?? I'd be interested to know.

I don't now recall the details of your particular post that prompted my response, forgive me, I am old. What was your original post number ? please

 

[Sanzbir]

I don't now recall the details of your particular post that prompted my response, forgive me, I am old. What was your original post number ? please

208, apparently.

 

[shmogie]

I'm not a Christian, but the OP topic makes me think of the following question:

Can Moses tell parables??

Because, in the Judaeo-Christian narrative, we have Moses writing these stories down originally.

And we have Jesus, then, in the new testament, giving parable after parable almost constantly in order to illustrate his points.

So in the stuff that Moses went and wrote down: Which of it is history?? Which of it is parable??

Why is it no one assumes Luke 10:25-37 is the bible stating, unequivocally, that there was a literal man who was literally robbed and who, in his hour of need, was ignored by a priest and a Levite only to be helped by a foreign Samaratan??

Jesus can tell stories, it seems, without everyone reading them assuming they are literal history, yet if Moses writes down a story then people seem to unquestionably assert it is meant to be a record of definite history.

It just seems a bit of an odd discrepancy to me.

Jesus specifically said that much of his teaching was in parables, he explains this more than once and specifically identified parables specific parables as such. Some parables can be nothing more, he calls himself a door, he certainly was not made of wood or had hinges.

By contrast Moses say's nothing of parables or allegory, he simply writes

 

[shmogie]

208, apparently.

I responded to your original post

 

[Sanzbir]

Jesus specifically said that much of his teaching was in parables, he explains this more than once and specifically identified parables specific parables as such. Some parables can be nothing more, he calls himself a door, he certainly was not made of wood or had hinges.

By contrast Moses say's nothing of parables or allegory, he simply writes

But sometimes Jesus jumps right into parable without directly saying he is doing so. Take the Good Samaritan story... He tells the story and never outright states it is parable.

So since it is not explicitly identified as parable, would you say it literally happened??

And Moses did speak in parable at time. He writes in exodus that God would make him a "god unto pharaoh" with Aaron as his "prophet". I am SURE you would agree Moses did not mean to say God made him a literal god.

 

[shmogie]

But sometimes Jesus jumps right into parable without directly saying he is doing so. Take the Good Samaritan story... He tells the story and never outright states it is parable.

So since it is not explicitly identified as parable, would you say it literally happened??

And Moses did speak in parable at time. He writes in exodus that God would make him a "god unto pharaoh" with Aaron as his "prophet". I am SURE you would agree Moses did not mean to say God made him a literal god.

Metaphor is not a parable. What possible relevance does it make if the Good Samaritan story is literally true, or a parable. It could be either. What is important is the message of the story.

 

[Sanzbir]

Metaphor is not a parable.

You're right, I made a mistake there. Though there are, for example, other parts of Moses' writings, such as the dreams of Joseph, which are parables that communicate future events.

The point I merely am trying to establish is that it isn't as if Jesus is completely clear when things are parable and when they are not, nor is using parable or analogy exclusive to Jesus' message. Using stories to convey meaning is a reoccurring theme throughout the biblical scriptures.

So I don't understand why some of Moses' writings are asserted to be unquestionably historical with no chance they could be parable as well.

What possible relevance does it make if the Good Samaritan story is literally true, or a parable. It could be either. What is important is the message of the story.

I fully and totally agree with you. Though I hold the same stance on other things, though, like the story of Adam and Eve.

For me, it is "What possible relevance does it make if the story of Eden is literally true, or a parable. It could be either. What is important is the message of the story."

The importance of the story of Adam and Even most certainly isn't the events that occur in its narrative but the themes and ethics communicated by it.

 

[shmogie]

You're right, I made a mistake there. Though there are, for example, other parts of Moses' writings, such as the dreams of Joseph, which are parables that communicate future events.

The point I merely am trying to establish is that it isn't as if Jesus is completely clear when things are parable and when they are not, nor is using parable or analogy exclusive to Jesus' message. Using stories to convey meaning is a reoccurring theme throughout the biblical scriptures.

So I don't understand why some of Moses' writings are asserted to be unquestionably historical with no chance they could be parable as well.



I fully and totally agree with you. Though I hold the same stance on other things, though, like the story of Adam and Eve.

For me, it is "What possible relevance does it make if the story of Eden is literally true, or a parable. It could be either. What is important is the message of the story."

The importance of the story of Adam and Even most certainly isn't the events that occur in its narrative but the themes and ethics communicated by it.

No disagreement here. Though I literally believe in Adam and Eve. I guess it could be construed as a parable. The message, humans were created as perfect beings, with the freewill to choose to become sinful and non perfect. They chose unwisely. The entire Bible is a description of God's plan to bring about the intended condition of humanity. As an example, C.S. Lewis wrote the " Chronicles of Narnia", an entire metaphorical series of books representing the Bible. When the first star wars movie came out, a read a paper by a Christian writer and theologian, who took the themes and characters of the movie, and wrote a very good Biblical narrative from the movie as it was shown in theaters.