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Featured Do Muslims and Christians worship the same God?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Wasp, Jul 30, 2019.

?
  1. I belong to one of these religions and believe they worship the same God

    8 vote(s)
    28.6%
  2. I belong to one of these religions and believe they worship different Gods

    4 vote(s)
    14.3%
  3. I belong to neither religion and believe they worship the same God

    11 vote(s)
    39.3%
  4. I belong to neither religion and believe they worship different Gods

    5 vote(s)
    17.9%
  1. SugarOcean

    SugarOcean ¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS

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  2. SugarOcean

    SugarOcean ¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS

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    I think the point being made isn't that in Islam Allah is not god. Rather the point is that the Allah god of Islam says in various Surah that he has no son. Did you watch the videos that were linked? They're not that long but they do pertain to the OP.
     
  3. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    I think the Muslims have the same issue with Jesus bring called the son of God as do the Jews.
     
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  4. SugarOcean

    SugarOcean ¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS

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    Two different causes for that.
    For the Muslims it is the Qur'an assertion Allah has no son. And of course there not being a savior in Islam.
    For the Jews many synagogues avoid teaching from Isaiah 53 in Torah. Otherwise things may change in that regard and as pertains to Messiah Jesus also.
     
  5. Firemorphic

    Firemorphic Activist Membrane

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    Not merely that, but it unabashedly affirms the absolute Unity of God. No idols, no exceptions. Limiting and anthropomorphizing God is prohibited. There is nothing but that God, whatever name you want to attach yourself to for tribalistic reasons.

    I can see why this would upset you so much though....:rolleyes:

    This isn't correct. We're "saved" through God alone, not through idols. But we do have a messianic figure, yes, the Mahdi.

    Interesting you say this. I presume that you've read a lot of Midrash (+ later Jewish exegesis) on Isaiah 53 to confirm this? Surely you're not just taking the Book of Acts' reference (and Matt 8:17 et al) to that chapter and interpreting Isaiah 53 through what Acts (et al) says?
     
    #65 Firemorphic, Jul 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
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  6. Pudding

    Pudding Well-Known Member

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    Definition:
    Same: Identical; not different.
    Identical: Similar in every detail; exactly alike.

    No, they're not worship the same God, because the God they respectively worship are not similar in every detail.
     
  7. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    Or,

    Same:
    "resembling in every relevant respect
    b : conforming in every respect —used with as
    2a : being one without addition, change, or discontinuance : identical
    b : being the one under discussion or already referred to
    3 : corresponding so closely as to be indistinguishable

    something identical with or similar to another
    2 : something or someone previously mentioned or described —often used with the or a demonstrative (such as that, those) in both senses"

    Definition of SAME
     
  8. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    He's wrong about the "biology" part. That's not all the Qur'an means regarding "sonship".

    Surah 5:116 isn't speaking about trinity at all, but refers to that how the christians began to worship Mary.
     
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  9. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    So you believe that the suffering servant in Isaiah 53 is Jesus Christ? Okay. So you believe its a prophesy about Jesus who is the messiah.

    Hypothetically lets say I agree (I say again, hypothetically), how does that make that associated to God? What does that have to do with God? Does that make Jesus God? What is your position?
     
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  10. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    Same tradition but the details have separated each God into something different over time.
     
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  11. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    Not the same trinity but a trinity. That why it calls Mary and Jesus Gods.
     
  12. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    Rather - if you insist on confusing people by using the word trinity here as well just because there are three mentioned - because it call them gods it would be a "trinity" of some sort.
     
  13. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    I confused no one as I clearly stated it was not the Christian Trinity. You just do not know that the trinity is considered polytheism in Islam via ascribing partners to God. Ergo it is a trinity within the Islamic view. That is not the Christian view of the Trinity as all.

    You assumed context. Try again.
     
  14. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    All of the Qur'an is the word of Allah.
     
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  15. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    It may well confuse people. It already does as Christian apologetics say "the Qur'an is confused about trinity" etc. Which leads a lot of ignorant people into thinking that the Qur'an is "trying to" refer to the Christian trinity.

    The only way it is trinity is as far as the dictionary allows. Using the word trinity is confusing and altogether unnecessary.
     
  16. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    No as the Quran promotes monotheism and rejects the Christian Trinity as shirk thus polytheism. That means according to Islam a trinity is 3 gods not 3 into one God. That only happens when one do not consider the Christian Trinity at all. Most Trinity Christians are monotheists even if they have no idea why nor can explain it.

    Nope. See above.
     
  17. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    There is no trinity in Islam. There is no trinity according to Islam. There is Shirk of many levels.
     
  18. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    Wrong as Islam makes a mistake in viewing the trinity as polytheism while most Trinitarian see it as still monotheism.
     
  19. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    Islam mainly views the trinity as Shirk - whether it's polytheism or not is secondary.
     
  20. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like the islamic god is then the god of the jews at least.
    And the christian god is then the god of the jews + some extra fluff.

    Not that I care much....
    But personally, if I would actually think that these texts are to be considered as proper accounts of history, I'ld trust the bible more on the crusifiction narrative then the quran. Even only because the quran was written 600 years later, while written crucifiction narrative in the bible goes back to only a couple decades after the alledged events.

    After all, why would an author 600 years later hundreds of miles further know better then the people who were supposedly there and saw it happening?

    Maybe Jesus was the imposter and the jews were right not to accept him as their messiah?
    I'ld think that a powerfull angel, or satan himself, would be more then powerfull enough to trick us puny humans, no?

    After all, how would you know?
     
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