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Featured Do Muslims and Christians worship the same God?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Wasp, Jul 30, 2019.

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  1. I belong to one of these religions and believe they worship the same God

    8 vote(s)
    28.6%
  2. I belong to one of these religions and believe they worship different Gods

    4 vote(s)
    14.3%
  3. I belong to neither religion and believe they worship the same God

    11 vote(s)
    39.3%
  4. I belong to neither religion and believe they worship different Gods

    5 vote(s)
    17.9%
  1. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Actually, Judaism and Islam theologically closer.
     
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  2. Earthtank

    Earthtank Member

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    You "general Islamic view" is WRONG. NO, Muslims and Christians do NOT worship the same God. Christians Worship the Trinity which makes them Polytheists while Muslims believe in Allah which makes monotheists. Also, Muslims believe Jesus was a Prophet not a God. Stop using false sources and clicking on the first google search result that comes out then come here and try to act smart.
     
  3. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    Their revelation is from Allah. So is the Torah, so one God's revelation made all three religions. Now of course if you want to say Christians are non-believers in the sense that they reject the Islamic view of God - that's another topic.
     
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  4. Earthtank

    Earthtank Member

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    Allah's revelation was later changed by people which gave life to Christianity and Judaism. So saying that "one God's revelation made all three religions" is inaccurate.
     
  5. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    Sure, but the point is: same God.
     
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  6. Earthtank

    Earthtank Member

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    Agree to disagree lol. My main point is they don't believe in the same God since they believe in Jesus, Father and holy Spirit while Muslims believe ONLY in Allah
     
  7. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    I prefer to say 'worship the same God' rather than 'believe in the same God' to keep things simpler.

    Believing that Jesus is God's son would be shirk, but shirk does not mean they don't believe in God.
     
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  8. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    All Abrahamic religions purport to worship the God of Abraham....but do they? If you believe in the one whom the Bible calls "the god of this world" (2 Corinthians 4:4) then there is a fake "god" at work, trying to impersonate the one true God of Abraham. Deception is his primary weapon in fooling people into believing that their religion serves the true God, when it is siphoned off by this pretender who wanted to "be like God" in the beginning.

    Abraham's God provided one guidebook to inform and to educate those who want to serve his interests in a world spiritually divided. The identity of the true God was misplaced as the devil created confusion about what true worship actually looked like. People created their own gods to reflect their own wants and cultural needs.

    But that guidebook too has been misinterpreted and misrepresented by God's enemy, using flawed humans to recruit new worshippers to a corrupted faith. The truth then sounds like a lie, and vice versa. Other "holy" guidebooks appeared and led people in different directions.

    There are literally thousands of Christian sects in Christendom....all have the same core beliefs but differ on many other things. If one of them has the truth, you would be hard pressed to identify it among them. But Jesus gave some interesting parables to help us to discern the correct one.

    The parable of the "wheat and the weeds" is very interesting. It tells us about a man who sowed fine seed in his field (this was Jesus) but while "men were sleeping" (not awake to the intrusion of an enemy) weeds were sown in that same field (by the devil). Not just any old weeds but a specific "weed" which at the time was a poisonous pest to farmers. (believed to be bearded darnel) It so resembled wheat in its early growing period that farmers could not tell the real wheat from the weed. So the farmer had to allow the two to grow together because only at the harvest time would the two be clearly distinguishable. The reapers would then go out and pull out the weeds and destroy them, leaving the wheat to be harvested. (Matt 13:24-30; 36-43)

    So according to this parable of Jesus, it wasn't the similarity in the beginning that helped identify the wheat, it was the difference at the end that provided the true identity......true wheat was going to be completely different...not sharing any of the similar characteristics of the early growth.

    I believe that Christendom is the weeds.....all basically the same but quarrelling over minor matters. (1 Corinthians 1:10) But at this "time of the end" when Jesus was to return, he said that "few" would be found on the road to life......apparently because the "many" did not even notice the narrow exit gate, and continue on the broad road to death, buoyed by the amount of people traveling with them, boosting their confidence that they must be on the right road. (Matthew 7:13-14) But even those who thought that their "Christianity" was the genuine article, will be shocked at Jesus' rejection of them. (Matthew 7:21-23)
    It all boils down to those found "doing the will of the Father" .....of "the only true God" according to Jesus. (John 17:3)
    "The only true God" has been lost to all but the "few"....so who are they? We have to identify them and join them in "doing the will of the Father". God is the one who invites them and no one can come to the Son without an invitation from the Father. (John 6:65)

    There are only two gods in this world...the true God YHWH, (Yahweh, Jehovah).....and the pretender who is called by various titles and names depending on which religious faith one follows. He created them all, catering to all tastes.

    All worship that does not go to the true God, goes to the devil by default. To me, that means that all who are on "the broad road" are worshipping the same god.....but it isn't who they think. :(
     
    #48 Deeje, Jul 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
  9. Dell

    Dell Asteroid insurance?

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    Historically yes they do..
    Realisticly no they dont..

    God is what you create him to be in your mind. So most everyone has a different God, for those who would believe there is one.
     
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  10. Firemorphic

    Firemorphic Activist Membrane

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    Depends if you make God in your own image or not. However, God is God, and God will always be God independent of one's impressions of God.
    Some of the reactions on threads like this though, as well as limiting God to only the perceived so-called "Abrahamic" strand of surviving religions that have been largely institutionalized - does not make for a very coherent understanding of God. Certainly whatever you "call" God is not gonna be God itself, because God is not the name itself, God is what the name means. Likewise the word "God" is not God.
     
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  11. ameyAtmA

    ameyAtmA SacchidAnanda
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    This is what we call desh-kAAl-pAtra-paricched and the Highest or Subtlest Divine cause of all causes is beyond
    1. desha = place/nation
    2. kAAla = time, era
    3. pAtra = the object, the prophet or seer through which revelations are made.

    Due to the difference in these 3 elements it appears as if there is a different Highest Supreme for each group.

    Bhagavad Geeta 10.20 I am the Self, O one-who-won-over-sleep, that pervades all living beings. I am their beginning (Source), their present, as well as their end (Sink - they end up in Me).

    BG 9.17 I am the Father of all creation, the Mother, the Upholder, and the GrandFather. I am the Purest and most auspicious Primordial Sound OnkAr (Om / Aum -- anologous to "the Word was God") , as well as the Rg, SAma and Yajur are my divine expressions (Word of God, Word was God).

    BG 11.32 Time I am and the Grandest cause of Time...

    More Bhagvad Geeta paraphrased : I am smaller than the smallest, larger than the largest (which means no quarks or particles of nature can exist without Me)

    BG 13: Although I am One without a Second, unbroken, and infinite, I appear as though of distinct forms (avibhaktam cha bhUteshu vibhaktam eva cha sthitam)) . I am the light of all lights (jyotinAm api jyoti).....
    BG 15: I am the Purushottam (Highest Being) that transcends all appearance, all created, transient, changing, and illusory.


    (In short, I am the Fabric of Origin on which all worldly appearances are mere projections. I am both immanent in and transcendent to the appearance called world / uni / multiverse. Even the modern science presentation of the gravitational fabric is a manifestation on Me, the Origin and Fabric of all existence. I am Truth, Existence, Aware Conscious Principle, and I am all-blissful in my purest state. Formless and unqualified, I am purest and un-attached to qualifiers)
     
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  12. ameyAtmA

    ameyAtmA SacchidAnanda
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    Moreover, any personality one attaches to or associates with the Supreme will always be inadequate, AND/OR , the Supreme transcends / is beyond / larger than any objective descriptions. Can't be "caught" or "captured" except with love, devotion and spiritual knowledge - Self-Realization.
     
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  13. SugarOcean

    SugarOcean ¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS

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    No, we don't worship the same God.
    Christianity preceded Islam. Jesus was the son of man and God and he was God incarnate.
    Islam's Allah has no son. Surah 23:91
     
  14. ameyAtmA

    ameyAtmA SacchidAnanda
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    That means the Son did not feel the need to intervene at the time of Islam. All desh-kaal-patra specific (nation, place, era, seer/prophet). So they did not realize He is the Son. Incarnation of God comes from God.
    That was simply my understanding of the subject.
     
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  15. SugarOcean

    SugarOcean ¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS

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    Surah 5:17
    They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent.

    If you have a little less than 7 minutes you may enjoy this.

    Published on Oct 11, 2018
    Muslims have always had a problem with God’s son, or more importantly, with Jesus as the ‘son of God’, because when they hear ‘sonship’ they assume that the Qur’an is stipulating that Jesus was God’s biological son, that God himself impregnated Mary, and from their union Jesus was created. The problem, however, is with the Qur’an itself.

    In Surah 4:171 it is clear that God has no son. To understand what it means by son here, you have to look no further than Surah 5 and 6 which define what it is claiming. Surah 5:17 confronts the notion that Allah can be the Messiah, the son of Mary, introducing the fact that God cannot come from a woman. Surah 5:72 says that Allah has no partner, confronting any view that Jesus can be the partner of God. Surah 5:75 claims that Allah cannot eat, yet Jesus ate, proving that he cannot be God. In Surah 5:116 it intimates that Mary is part of the trinity, with Allah the father, Mary the mother, and Jesus the son, a very biological trinity. And then in Surah 6:101 it says that Allah cannot have a consort, cannot have a wife.

    In all of these 5 examples the Qur’an is at fault as not one of these verses reflects what the Bible nor what Christians believe concerning ‘son of God’.

    Nonetheless, Jesus is the ‘Son of God’, and has always been the ‘Son of God’. So, can sonship mean something else besides a biological relationship?

    Take a look at Surah 2:177, where a traveler is referred to as ‘ibn ul-sabeeli’, which literally means ‘a son of the road’. Yet, no one would suggest that the traveler is born from the road itself, proving that the Arabic of the Qur’an accommodates another meaning of ‘sonship’, one which is relational, and not biological.

    What’s more in Surah 39:4 it intimates that Allah can have a son! Thus, the question now needs to be reversed back to the Muslims…asking how exactly can Allah have a biological son, something the Bible never agrees to?

    So, if Jesus is the ‘son of God’, what then does that mean? He’s not a biological son, but he does inherit everything his Father has, including his divinity. This is a divine title for the Jews, and when Caiaphas asked him this question in Matthew 26:62-66 and Jesus accepted this title, he tore his cloak and said ‘what further proof do we need, this man has blasphemed’! He knew that Jesus was claiming a divine title for himself.

    So, if you want to blame someone or something concerning whether God can have a son, don’t blame the Bible, but blame the Qur’an, because the writers of the Qur’an realized that if Jesus really was the Son of God, then he was claiming divinity, and every time he used that title, he was saying “I am God”. That is why the writers created these 5 verses to center solely on to Jesus’ humanity, and thereby tried to divert the readers from Jesus’ divinity.

    © Pfander Centre for Apologetics - US, 2018

     
  16. SugarOcean

    SugarOcean ¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS

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  17. Firemorphic

    Firemorphic Activist Membrane

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    Naik? are you serious? :tearsofjoy:
     
  18. Firemorphic

    Firemorphic Activist Membrane

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    Ok, start at the beginning. What is God?

    Judaism and half a dozen defunct "heretical" pre-Christian sects existed before "Christianity", you're not really saying much. Not even the early Christians agreed over the status of Jesus, there is a lot of contention in this area and it'd be utterly foolish to regard it as black-and-white. Many just viewed Jesus as a Promethean figure passing down the lamp of divinity to his followers, rather than "God-incarnate", certainly most Gnostic sects also agreed on it (and still do today).
     
  19. ameyAtmA

    ameyAtmA SacchidAnanda
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    Thanks.

    So it is very clear that
    1. The Surah is not words of Allah because it is in 3rd person -- refers to Allah as 3rd Person , not as WE -- first person..
    2. The writers of those Surah tried to push Jesus' divinity under the rug, Allah didn't.
    3. It means the concept of the Divine avatAr -- descent. incarnation as a phenomenon --- very familiar to Hindus, even different types, categories levels of avatAr,, a bit tricky for some Christians at RF, but totally unthinkable to the Muslims, -- does not have to imply that Allah is not God.

    Just a thought/
     
  20. Thirza Fallen

    Thirza Fallen Crazy Cat Lady

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    The trinity, while unbiblical, is three aspects of one god. LDS view the trinity as three separate individuals.
     
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