1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Death is proof that God exists

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by KingTruth, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. KingTruth

    KingTruth New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Ratings:
    +2
    Religion:
    Believes in God
    Why is it that all humans die someday? Even the Christians say “Jesus” died, but not: “God” died. In the Bible, Mark 10:18 says only God is truly good. I can believe this because all humans die and God does not. Humans are beings. God is a being. One dies, the other doesn’t. If you’re honest with yourself, you’ll know you’re not really a good being. Otherwise, you’ll never die. It’s undeniable. Then it should be no surprise to know that humanity is on the verge of extinction; there’s a war between Good and evil behind the scenes. Goodness should have just deleted evil at the beginning, but strangely, evil has enough power to prevent its immediate death. This is why humanity STILL exists today. But by definition, good is stronger than evil; Goodness will win the war and finally vanquish humanity after striking ENOUGH killer blows to evil.

    Now, how come humans don’t exist in a perfect abode like what you could call Heaven? A place where there is only peace, one is always strong and healthy, no hatred, no dishonesty, no filth etc.

    You are what you create! God is only good and thus cannot create anything that isn’t good. It is known that existence is full of many infirmities and rubbish. Who created those? Definitely not God! This therefore means that humans are actually all the sin, evil, bad, wrong, flaws etc in existence. Yes, there is a human out there who embodies bad breath, initials: BB = Barry Borden, who embodies body odor, initials: BO = Benjamin Oliver, who embodies weakness, initials: WN = Winifred Newton etc.

    Good is stronger than evil, therefore God cannot be limited and is already omnipotent and omniscient. He can do absolutely anything good, but there is no such thing as purifying humanity. Making a change to a being means changing identity. Purging humanity would mean deleting the old identity of sin, and somehow creating a new one of purity. That deletion means death. They call it sinner, but that sinner is actually a sin itself!

    The fact that humans die means humanity is not good. Accept it. Therefore there’s a higher power ensuring that existence will one day be purified. Too bad no one here will be there!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Remté

    Remté Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Messages:
    953
    Ratings:
    +189
    Of course humanity is no good.

    We die because the cellsbin our body stop renewing themselves
     
  3. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Resident Hermit
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    5,161
    Ratings:
    +5,382
    Religion:
    Advaitist Hindu
    The premise for your argument is flawed. It assumes two things.
    1. Jesus was correct in the Bible verse you linked.
    2. The Bible contains no errors or contradictions.
    You must provide evidence that both assumptions are accurate before you have proof of anything. Most importantly, you would need Jesus to provide evidence that God is the only one that is good.

    You would also need to provide some sort of evidence that the concepts of 'good' and 'evil' exist outside of humanity, because there are other species on this earth that experience temporal death who do not identify with the terms.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    6,304
    Ratings:
    +2,793
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    not necessarily just that
     
  5. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity I'm n ur cookeez
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    23,481
    Ratings:
    +6,905
    Religion:
    Liberal Christian almost quaker
    That seems like a very dry sense of humor. You should make it a little more obvious so people don't get confused. You could shorten it, too, to only the words "Accept it."
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    6,038
    Ratings:
    +2,931
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    All that has ever lived has ended up dying. Even the Earth and the Sun will someday "die." Perhaps the galaxy or even the entire universe may die.

    I don't think death proves that God exists. All it proves is that everything dies. Now, if it turned out that there were some people living forever - because they were so pious and good - then that would be different.

    Humanity is what it is. Some of it is good, some not so good, some downright evil.

    Is good really stronger than evil? I sometimes wonder. A cat is stronger than a mouse, but I don't see how that would make either of them "good" or "evil." They just do what they do, whatever is natural and instinctive for them. Humans are more complex than that, but they're still compelled to deal with the limitations of their existence defined by whatever possible "designer" there might have been.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2017
    Messages:
    1,069
    Ratings:
    +497

    Firstly, welcome to the forum. Secondly, there are others who think as I do, that may not be so polite in their challenge to your post. You are not seriously suggesting that since only a God is truly good and cannot die, then humans die only because they can't be as good as a God? Remember God is not a physical, biological organism. God is a Belief/concept/construct created by human biological organisms. A belief can only live in the mind, and can't die outside the mind. I would strongly suggest that you rethink this post, and research the many theories explaining the process of ageing. While you are at it, look up the meaning of entropy. IMHO.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,983
    Ratings:
    +4,629
    Religion:
    Catholic
    I've died twice, but I'm fine now. At this point, I'm proceeding under the assumption that I'm functionally immortal, until proven otherwise.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  9. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    Messages:
    9,852
    Ratings:
    +5,416
    Religion:
    Secular theist (none)
    What is death? In ancient days it was thought to be when breathing stopped. So people like Alexander the Great might have been buried alive since their breathing was too shallow after an episode. Then it became when the heart stopped. There are still people who wake up in morgues these days. So death of the body is when functions in the body stop and can't start again. The longer it continues the harder it's to have external help for restarting it.
     
  10. youknowme

    youknowme Whatever you want me to be.

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,468
    Ratings:
    +627
    How do you know God isn't dead?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    6,038
    Ratings:
    +2,931
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    I've heard of a few cases of people waking up in morgues. That would be kind of freaky, although it's better than being buried alive. Or even being cremated - imagine waking up just as you're put into the retort.

    I once saw this horror movie where this guy had died, yet he still had consciousness inside his dead body. He couldn't speak or move or do anything, yet he was aware he was dead and could still feel being cut into during an autopsy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    Messages:
    9,852
    Ratings:
    +5,416
    Religion:
    Secular theist (none)
    Such things were a common fear in past times as being pronounced dead due to sleep paralysis or something like that, with unintentional premature burials being discovered now and then.
     
  13. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    4,964
    Ratings:
    +4,906
    Religion:
    None
    If you're honest with yourself, you'll realize that you don't know everybody and cannot make ethical judgments about those you do not know, unless, of course, you assume some religious pronouncement that declares that nobody is good.

    I don't. I have no such religious notions directing my understanding of reality. I define good for myself without the input of priests or holy books, and by my reckoning, many people are basically good. My social circle contains uncounted numbers of good people, people you have probably never met, but still gladly judge because you have accepted these religious dicta. I don't see how such ideas are constructive or make the world a better place.

    Another religious idea that I find unsupported by experience. Every person dies, however good or malicious they were in life, soe quite young. Life makes more sense if you remove gods from your worldview and get your information about reality by observing it rather than reading and accepting the words of theists on these matters. They have no special access to good or accurate information, and much of what is taught by such people will misdirect you.

    Another unsupported religious idea. Although possible, there is no reason to believe that humanity will go extinct unless you mean evolve into a different form. That will likely happen given enough time, especially if we colonize other worlds, where we would likely evolve to adapt to local conditions.

    Another unsupported religious idea.

    This is why I avoid the use of the word evil, which for many connotes a disembodied force of nature (or embodied as a immortal demon). I see no evidence of such a thing existing, just malice in some of humankind which is limited to the minds of those with malicious intent, and is of endogenous origin, not some infection by a super force of evil. I find that idea unnecessary and unsupported by experience.

    Not by my definition or any dictionary definition of good or evil, either. This must be another religious idea.

    Why would we live in a perfect world? In a godless universe, we would expect no perfect worlds unless intelligent creatures arise on them to create them. Man has been working for centuries now to make his world better with no apparent help from gods or other extraterrestrials, and has come a long way in his efforts, Today people live longer, are healthier, are safer, are more comfortable, and live easier lives with the assistance of machines that do much of the menial labor. I don't see where religions have contributed much if anything to that noble effort.

    Incidentally, you never proved that death indicates that there is a good god.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    141,640
    Ratings:
    +38,207
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    Death proves God exists?
    Nah.
    Bacon is a stronger argument.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. Amanaki

    Amanaki sotāpanna

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    2,642
    Ratings:
    +1,402
    Religion:
    Cultivator of Buddha Dhamma
    The only thing we know 100% in life is that we will die
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    9,340
    Ratings:
    +3,956
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    Death is a natural consequence of organic nature of ALL life and oxidation.
     
  17. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    20,217
    Ratings:
    +8,401
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    Death is evidence for the ToE.
     
  18. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Resident Hermit
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    5,161
    Ratings:
    +5,382
    Religion:
    Advaitist Hindu
    We? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?
     
  19. Amanaki

    Amanaki sotāpanna

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    2,642
    Ratings:
    +1,402
    Religion:
    Cultivator of Buddha Dhamma
    Figur of speech. Do you hve a different answer to our physical life? Spiritually we live on but body will die
     
  20. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Resident Hermit
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    5,161
    Ratings:
    +5,382
    Religion:
    Advaitist Hindu
    Death, in the context of this thread, is the permanent end to vital processes. My body and mind will cease to function as designed. Being a carbon based life form, my body will move on to a different form(s).

    OTOH, I have no beginning and no end.

    I do my best to avoid use of the word 'we' in subjectively based discourse. I speak for myself and no one else.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...