Could Jesus been born with a father and still be Son of God?

[The Anointed]

YES.
"So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was." (John 17:5; John 8:23)


YES. He was not just "a son of God" (as angels are called) but he alone is "the only-begotten son of God" meaning that he was the very first and only direct creation of his Father. (Colossians 1:15-17) Adam is also called a 'son of God' because he was created, not born. (Luke 3:38)

If he existed before his earthly mission then of course he existed before Mary became pregnant.



That negates the whole basis of his mission. As "the last Adam" Jesus offered up his perfect life as an exchange that was necessary for mankind's redemption.....he offered 'a sinless life for a sinless life'. If he was merely the biological product of Mary and Joseph, his life could never have cancelled Adam's sin...whose awful debt to the human race resulted in death for all of us....and we would all still have no hope.
Do you understand the law of redemption given to Israel?



If Jesus had not been the equivalent to Adam (sinless and physically perfect) and he had he not been executed, he would not have died of natural causes and he would also have been subject to illnesses....but as a perfect human being (the equivalent to Adam in all respects) he would never have aged, or become ill, or suffered with any of the afflictions that plague the human race. I don't think humans realize what was lost when Adam threw us all under the bus. God has been showing us what it means to abuse free will ever since....the ramifications are like the endless ripples in a pond. Will we ever learn the lessons?

Christians await the time, so near now we believe, when God will hold all humans to an accounting for how they have lived the lives that he has given them. No one will escape this judgment. (Hebrews 4:13)

As Jesus said, his return would see the earth again filled with violence and immorality (Matthew 24:37-39)....and here we are.

The Son of Man, the most high in the creation, Our Lord God and savior, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; “I will send them a prophet just like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he will tell the people everything that I command him to say. And whoever will not give heed to MY WORDS which he will speak in MY NAME, I will surely punish.”

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man, when, concerning the man Jesus, he says in. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."

Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "Blessed is he, who comes in the name of the Lord." Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had promised that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.

It was the Lord God our savior who spoke through his obedient servant Jesus, who said in John 17: 5; "So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was."

It was also our Lord, whose earthly temple was the man Jesus, who said; "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up?”

Who was it who raised the temple of the Lord after it had been destroyed?

Acts 5: 30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.

Acts 13: 30; But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee, etc.

1st Corinthians 6: 14; And God has both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.

2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.

Acts 17: 31; For He (The Lord God our saviour) has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

 

[Thief]

1. Was Jesus a Spirit in Heaven Prior to Mary's Pregnancy?

2. Was Jesus son of God, before Mary getting pregnant?


3. Let's assume if Mary became pregnant after marrying Joseph, could still Jesus become the Child if Mary got pregnant by Joseph??

4. Or what made Jesus Son of God, was only possible, when Jesus did not have a human father?

I believe we can all be sons of God
regardless of your earthly father

and when you recite the Lord's Prayer
you declare yourself a child of God

OUR Father.....

your Father?
my Father?
brothers are we?

heaven hears it
so too the devil behind you

 

[The Anointed]

YES.
"So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was." (John 17:5; John 8:23)


YES. He was not just "a son of God" (as angels are called) but he alone is "the only-begotten son of God" meaning that he was the very first and only direct creation of his Father. (Colossians 1:15-17) Adam is also called a 'son of God' because he was created, not born. (Luke 3:38)

If he existed before his earthly mission then of course he existed before Mary became pregnant.



That negates the whole basis of his mission. As "the last Adam" Jesus offered up his perfect life as an exchange that was necessary for mankind's redemption.....he offered 'a sinless life for a sinless life'. If he was merely the biological product of Mary and Joseph, his life could never have cancelled Adam's sin...whose awful debt to the human race resulted in death for all of us....and we would all still have no hope.
Do you understand the law of redemption given to Israel?



If Jesus had not been the equivalent to Adam (sinless and physically perfect) and he had he not been executed, he would not have died of natural causes and he would not have been subject to illnesses....but as a perfect human being (the equivalent to Adam in all respects) he would never have aged, or become ill, or suffered with any of the afflictions that plague the human race. I don't think humans realize what was lost when Adam threw us all under the bus. God has been showing us what it means to abuse free will ever since....the ramifications are like the endless ripples in a pond. Will we ever learn the lessons?

Christians await the time, so near now we believe, when God will hold all humans to an accounting for how they have lived the lives that he has given them. No one will escape this judgment. (Hebrews 4:13)

As Jesus said, his return would see the earth again filled with violence and immorality (Matthew 24:37-39)....and here we are.

Through the mouth of his chosen earthly host body, [The man Jesus] who spoke not one word on his own authority other than that which he was commanded to say, the saviour of the body of mankind, says in John 8: 28; “When you lift up the Son of Man, you will know that ‘I Am Who I Am’=JHWH.”

For this reason, Jesus, the host body through whom our saviour revealed himself to mankind, and who was the earthly IMAGE of the Lord God our Saviour. Jesus, the earthly IMAGE of our Lord, who was obedient even unto his cruel death upon the stake, was lifted up upon a pole in the same manner that Moses lifted up the IMAGE of the serpent in the wilderness, in order that all those who were dying because of the venom of the serpent that was coursing through their veins, [The accusing spirit] in order to be saved, only have to turn their eye to the ‘IMAGE’ of the one who had been lifted up.

Jesus was the earthly 'IMAGE' of he who was lifted up. He, who said; "So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was."

 

[DKH]

Was Jesus a Spirit in Heaven Prior to Mary's Pregnancy?

No, it is my belief that Jesus did not preexist in heaven, as a celestial being or a god…However, the Christ did exist in the mind and plan of God! Which, would be just as good.

Was Jesus son of God, before Mary getting pregnant?

No, it is my belief that the Christ did not become the only begotten Son of God until his heavenly Father supplied the required means to complete the process of impregnation. This was not done by physical contact, but by the Holy Spirit or the power of God (Matt. 1:20 & Eph. 1:17-20).

Let's assume if Mary became pregnant after marrying Joseph, could still Jesus become the Child if Mary got pregnant by Joseph??

No, mainly because that's not the way it happened. Yet, if we apply your assumption, the answer would still be no, because a betrothal was a marriage contract and the bible is clear that Joseph did not have sexual relations with Mary, until after the birth of Jesus (Matt. 1:25).

Or what made Jesus Son of God, was only possible, when Jesus did not have a human father?

God, was the source of the required DNA, genes and all other male requirements that King David had, as well as, David's ancestors. This would be a simple definition for the Heavenly Father.


Note: Even though I have used bible verses for support, this posting is my personal opinion and should only be understood in that context.

 

[firedragon]

1. Was Jesus a Spirit in Heaven Prior to Mary's Pregnancy?

2. Was Jesus son of God, before Mary getting pregnant?


3. Let's assume if Mary became pregnant after marrying Joseph, could still Jesus become the Child if Mary got pregnant by Joseph??

4. Or what made Jesus Son of God, was only possible, when Jesus did not have a human father?

Bro. What about Ephraim?

 

[Deeje]

The Son of Man, the most high in the creation, Our Lord God and savior, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; “I will send them a prophet just like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he will tell the people everything that I command him to say. And whoever will not give heed to MY WORDS which he will speak in MY NAME, I will surely punish.”

Whoa....hang on....where do you get the idea that Jesus is "the Most high", Jehovah? (Psalm 83:18) Not once is that name ever given to Christ, either before or after his earthly sojourn. There is only one God who bears that name.
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God; the Lord is one. דשְׁמַ֖ע יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ יְהֹוָ֥ה | אֶחָֽד: (Deuteronomy 6:4)
The English translation is missing something very important.....God's name....יְהֹוָ֥ה (Yahweh...Jehovah) Jehovah is "ONE" not three.

The promised "prophet like Moses" was to do a work like Moses.....Jesus was identified as that prophet....so who sent him? "The only true God" sent him. (John 17:3) He didn't send himself? Why would he need to?

He was to lead the people out of captivity to spiritual freedom from the corrupted Jewish system, and at the time of his return he was going to do the same again. The 'wheat and the weeds' would be separated, based on a global preaching of the good news of his Kingdom. (Matthew 24:14) "The end" cannot come until that work is complete. So what is "the good news of the Kingdom"?

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man, when, concerning the man Jesus, he says in. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."

Yes, which is why Jesus had to be born to a Jewish mother. Being born in the tribe of Judah to a Jewish mother was part of his credentials.....his adoptive father, Joseph was also of the tribe of Judah. Until the age of 30, Jesus was just 'Jesus son of Joseph'. (Luke 3:23) It was not until his baptism and anointing with God's spirit that he became Jesus "the Christ".

Through the mouth of his chosen earthly host body, [The man Jesus] who spoke not one word on his own authority other than that which he was commanded to say, the saviour of the body of mankind, says in John 8: 28; “When you lift up the Son of Man, you will know that ‘I Am Who I Am’=JHWH.”

Look it up in the Tanakh.....God's name never was "I AM".
Exodus 3:13-15....
"And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?" יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם:

14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'" ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:

15And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר"

There is only one person in existence who bears that name....."The Lord God" is יְהֹוָ֞ה

 

[Deeje]

For this reason, Jesus, the host body through whom our saviour revealed himself to mankind, and who was the earthly IMAGE of the Lord God our Saviour. Jesus, the earthly IMAGE of our Lord, who was obedient even unto his cruel death upon the stake, was lifted up upon a pole in the same manner that Moses lifted up the IMAGE of the serpent in the wilderness, in order that all those who were dying because of the venom of the serpent that was coursing through their veins, [The accusing spirit] in order to be saved, only have to turn their eye to the ‘IMAGE’ of the one who had been lifted up.

The host body? Where will I find Jesus described that way in any passage of scripture?
God implanted the lifeforce of his heavenly son (who is described as 'the image' of his Father) into the womb of a Jewish virgin.
According to the Apostle Paul, Jesus is...."the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." (Colossians 1:15) and the Apostle John described him as..."the Beginning of the creation of God." This "created" Being is not God...and never once said he was. He only ever called himself "God's son".

Jesus was the earthly 'IMAGE' of he who was lifted up. He, who said; "So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was."

How could Jesus have his own glory restored by God if he was God?
How can mere mortals kill an immortal God?
Did Jesus resurrect himself? Is that what the Bible says?
Who did Jesus pray to so that God's will could be done and not his own?
How could the Father know things that the son did not?
Why would angels need to minister to God when he was feeling vulnerable?

The more you play with the concept of the trinity the sillier it gets.

Now, if I was to ask you who your brotherhood are, so that I could identify them, and examine their beliefs, would you be able to direct me? Because if your beliefs are yours and yours alone...you cannot possibly have the truth. All of God's servants must speak in agreement...(1 Corinthians 1:10)...and they must meet together. (Hebrews 10:24-25) And 'love for one another' must be seen in that brotherhood, as well as love for one's 'enemies'. (John 13:24-25; Matthew 5:43-45) They would also be identified as being "hated" in the world for the same reason that Jesus was hated. (John 15:18-21) These are the identifying traits of true disciples of Jesus.

 

[blü 2]

1. Was Jesus a Spirit in Heaven Prior to Mary's Pregnancy?

2. Was Jesus son of God, before Mary getting pregnant?


3. Let's assume if Mary became pregnant after marrying Joseph, could still Jesus become the Child if Mary got pregnant by Joseph??

4. Or what made Jesus Son of God, was only possible, when Jesus did not have a human father?

There are five versions of Jesus in the bible ─ one each for Paul, and the respective authors of Mark, Matthew, Luke and John.

The answers to your questions are
1. Was Jesus a Spirit in Heaven Prior to Mary's Pregnancy?
Paul ─ Yes
Mark ─ No
Matthew ─ No
Luke ─ No
John ─ Yes

2. Was Jesus son of God, before Mary getting pregnant?
Paul ─ Jesus was created by God in heaven, and Jesus made the material universe, so, Sort of.
Mark ─ No
Matthew ─ No
Luke ─ No
John ─ Identical to Paul

3. If Mary became pregnant after marrying Joseph, could still Jesus become the Child if Mary got pregnant by Joseph?
Paul ─ Yes. Jesus' birth was the way Jesus entered the world of men from heaven, but apart from saying he was born in the line of David, he doesn't go into details, doesn't name Mary (or Joseph) at any point)
Mark ─ Yes, Jesus became the son of God by adoption, exactly as how David had become the son of God in Psalm 2:7
Matthew ─ Mary expressly became pregnant by the Holy Spirit, while still a virgin, so Jesus had God's Y-chromosome.
Luke ─ Same as Matthew
John ─ Identical to Paul.

4. Or what made Jesus Son of God, was only possible, when Jesus did not have a human father?
Paul ─ Apparently it was irrelevant that Jesus had a human father (see 3)
Mark ─ Jesus became son of God although born an ordinary Jewish human.
Matthew ─ Yes.
Luke ─ Yes.
John ─ Identical to Paul

So the answers depend on which Jesus you select.

 

[The Anointed]

There are five versions of Jesus in the bible ─ one each for Paul, and the respective authors of Mark, Matthew, Luke and John.

The answers to your questions are
1. Was Jesus a Spirit in Heaven Prior to Mary's Pregnancy?
Paul ─ Yes
Mark ─ No
Matthew ─ No
Luke ─ No
John ─ Yes

2. Was Jesus son of God, before Mary getting pregnant?
Paul ─ Jesus was created by God in heaven, and Jesus made the material universe, so, Sort of.
Mark ─ No
Matthew ─ No
Luke ─ No
John ─ Again, identical to Paul

3. If Mary became pregnant after marrying Joseph, could still Jesus become the Child if Mary got pregnant by Joseph?
Paul ─ Yes. Jesus' birth was the way Jesus entered the world of men from heaven, but apart from saying he was born in the line of David, he doesn't go into details, doesn't name Mary (or Joseph) at any point)
Mark ─ Yes, Jesus became the son of God by adoption, exactly as how David had become the son of God in Psalm 2:7
Matthew ─ Mary expressly became pregnant by the Holy Spirit, while still a virgin, so Jesus had God's Y-chromosome.
Luke ─ Same as Matthew
John ─ Identical to Paul.

4. Or what made Jesus Son of God, was only possible, when Jesus did not have a human father?
Paul ─ Apparently it was irrelevant that Jesus had a human father (see 3)
Mark ─ Jesus became son of God although born an ordinary Jewish human.
Matthew ─ Yes.
Luke ─ Yes.
John ─ Identical to Paul

So the answers depend on which Jesus you select.

Please supply scripture and verse where you THINK Paul and John claim that the man Jesus pre-existed the creation of the cosmos?

 

[firedragon]

There are five versions of Jesus in the bible ─ one each for Paul, and the respective authors of Mark, Matthew, Luke and John.

The answers to your questions are
1. Was Jesus a Spirit in Heaven Prior to Mary's Pregnancy?
Paul ─ Yes
Mark ─ No
Matthew ─ No
Luke ─ No
John ─ Yes

2. Was Jesus son of God, before Mary getting pregnant?
Paul ─ Jesus was created by God in heaven, and Jesus made the material universe, so, Sort of.
Mark ─ No
Matthew ─ No
Luke ─ No
John ─ Again, identical to Paul

3. If Mary became pregnant after marrying Joseph, could still Jesus become the Child if Mary got pregnant by Joseph?
Paul ─ Yes. Jesus' birth was the way Jesus entered the world of men from heaven, but apart from saying he was born in the line of David, he doesn't go into details, doesn't name Mary (or Joseph) at any point)
Mark ─ Yes, Jesus became the son of God by adoption, exactly as how David had become the son of God in Psalm 2:7
Matthew ─ Mary expressly became pregnant by the Holy Spirit, while still a virgin, so Jesus had God's Y-chromosome.
Luke ─ Same as Matthew
John ─ Identical to Paul.

4. Or what made Jesus Son of God, was only possible, when Jesus did not have a human father?
Paul ─ Apparently it was irrelevant that Jesus had a human father (see 3)
Mark ─ Jesus became son of God although born an ordinary Jewish human.
Matthew ─ Yes.
Luke ─ Yes.
John ─ Identical to Paul

So the answers depend on which Jesus you select.

Thats pretty good analysis. Appreciate it mate.

 

[firedragon]

Please supply scripture and verse where you THINK Paul and John claim that the man Jesus pre-existed the creation of the cosmos?

How do you place John 1:1, the prologue?

 

[blü 2]

Please supply scripture and verse where you THINK Paul and John claim that the man Jesus pre-existed the creation of the cosmos?

My pleasure. The underlying source of these ideas in both Paul and the author of John is gnosticism, Jesus as the demiurge.

1 Corinthian 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

 

[Eddi]

1. Was Jesus a Spirit in Heaven Prior to Mary's Pregnancy?

He was a part of God, that had always existed. So no, not really. Calling him a "spirit' would imply that he was somehow created. Although I believe he was unphysical...

2. Was Jesus son of God, before Mary getting pregnant?

No - he was completely divine but not at all human. His human nature began when he took the form of a man.

Sorry, but I don't understand the other two questions

 

[BilliardsBall]

1. Was Jesus a Spirit in Heaven Prior to Mary's Pregnancy?

2. Was Jesus son of God, before Mary getting pregnant?


3. Let's assume if Mary became pregnant after marrying Joseph, could still Jesus become the Child if Mary got pregnant by Joseph??

4. Or what made Jesus Son of God, was only possible, when Jesus did not have a human father?

1) No.
2) Yes.
3) No.
4) Jesus was sinless, not descended from Joseph, who was descended from the Davidic line of kings that was cut off.

 

[blü 2]

Jesus was sinless, not descended from Joseph, who was descended from the Davidic line of kings that was cut off.

That Jesus was sinless is not true of Mark's Jesus, who had to have his sins washed off him by JtB before the heavens opened and God adopted him as [his] son.

The parents of Jesus in Mark's story aren't specifically named, but they were ordinary Jews and they weren't of the line of David.

The parents of Paul's and John's Jesuses are implied, but neither Paul nor the author of John addresses Jesus' birth as a distinct event, or names his parents, or says anything of them except that as a result Jesus was of the line of David.

The parents of Matthew's and Luke's Jesuses are the virgin Mary and God, meaning, as we've discussed before, that Jesus had God's Y-chromosome (otherwise she'd be Jesa). I think we've previously also touched on the absurdity of the fake and incompatible genealogies in Matthew and Luke trying to make him a descendant of David.

I don't recall any passage in the NT where Jesus says he's sinless. Does he make such a claim?

 

[moorea944]

1. Was Jesus a Spirit in Heaven Prior to Mary's Pregnancy?

2. Was Jesus son of God, before Mary getting pregnant?


3. Let's assume if Mary became pregnant after marrying Joseph, could still Jesus become the Child if Mary got pregnant by Joseph??

4. Or what made Jesus Son of God, was only possible, when Jesus did not have a human father?

[1. Was Jesus a Spirit in Heaven Prior to Mary's Pregnancy?]
No, Jesus was not a spirit prior to Mary's pregnancy. There was no reason for that. Jesus was born a man. Some people think John 17 refers to Jesus pre-existing. "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

In Greek, "with" is "para", which can also be translated "from". There are many places in the New Testament where this is so. For example, when Paul received his authority from the chief priests, that word translated from is para (Acts 9:14; 26:10,12).

And so, Jesus received His glory and authority from His Father. That glory and authority existed before the world was because God knows the end from the beginning of all things. But, the glory and the authority were only dispensed when Jesus, the man, was born.

Also, dont we have glory and love in our children before they are born too? We see ourselves with them as they grow up, school, marriage, grandchildren. And that's even before they are even born. We love them before they are born.

John 1 "In the beginning was the Word". That is not totally directed to Jesus in this verse. The translators capitalised the "W" in the word "Word". That word "Word" is "LOGOS" in the Greek. It's not talking about Jesus directly. LOGOS means someone's plans, thoughts, reasons, etc... Then in verse 14, God's plans were made flesh. Jesus is the Word or LOGOS in Greek, made flesh. Is Jesus in the LOGOS too? Of course, he was "part of" God's plans, thoughts, reasons.... But is doesnt mean he pre-existed.


[2. Was Jesus son of God, before Mary getting pregnant?]
Jesus was the son of God when he was born. I'm sure God already had that title ready for Jesus before he was born. We see that all through the OT.



[3. Let's assume if Mary became pregnant after marrying Joseph, could still Jesus become the Child if Mary got pregnant by Joseph??]
No. Prophecies were told of a virgin.

First of all, we shouldnt assume other outcomes in God's plans. What if this, what if that... That can bring us down another path.

[4. Or what made Jesus Son of God, was only possible, when Jesus did not have a human father?]
I think you answered your own question.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

[1. Was Jesus a Spirit in Heaven Prior to Mary's Pregnancy?]
No, Jesus was not a spirit prior to Mary's pregnancy. There was no reason for that. Jesus was born a man. Some people think John 17 refers to Jesus pre-existing. "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

In Greek, "with" is "para", which can also be translated "from". There are many places in the New Testament where this is so. For example, when Paul received his authority from the chief priests, that word translated from is para (Acts 9:14; 26:10,12).

And so, Jesus received His glory and authority from His Father. That glory and authority existed before the world was because God knows the end from the beginning of all things. But, the glory and the authority were only dispensed when Jesus, the man, was born.

Also, dont we have glory and love in our children before they are born too? We see ourselves with them as they grow up, school, marriage, grandchildren. And that's even before they are even born. We love them before they are born.

John 1 "In the beginning was the Word". That is not totally directed to Jesus in this verse. The translators capitalised the "W" in the word "Word". That word "Word" is "LOGOS" in the Greek. It's not talking about Jesus directly. LOGOS means someone's plans, thoughts, reasons, etc... Then in verse 14, God's plans were made flesh. Jesus is the Word or LOGOS in Greek, made flesh. Is Jesus in the LOGOS too? Of course, he was "part of" God's plans, thoughts, reasons.... But is doesnt mean he pre-existed.


[2. Was Jesus son of God, before Mary getting pregnant?]
Jesus was the son of God when he was born. I'm sure God already had that title ready for Jesus before he was born. We see that all through the OT.



[3. Let's assume if Mary became pregnant after marrying Joseph, could still Jesus become the Child if Mary got pregnant by Joseph??]
No. Prophecies were told of a virgin.

First of all, we shouldnt assume other outcomes in God's plans. What if this, what if that... That can bring us down another path.

[4. Or what made Jesus Son of God, was only possible, when Jesus did not have a human father?]
I think you answered your own question.

So, what made Jesus Son of God?
1. He was Called son of God, because He was born from a virgin?
2. He was son of God, because God chose Him to be His son?
3. He was son of God, because His Spirit, was the Spirit of God?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

There are five versions of Jesus in the bible ─ one each for Paul, and the respective authors of Mark, Matthew, Luke and John.

The answers to your questions are
1. Was Jesus a Spirit in Heaven Prior to Mary's Pregnancy?
Paul ─ Yes
Mark ─ No
Matthew ─ No
Luke ─ No
John ─ Yes

2. Was Jesus son of God, before Mary getting pregnant?
Paul ─ Jesus was created by God in heaven, and Jesus made the material universe, so, Sort of.
Mark ─ No
Matthew ─ No
Luke ─ No
John ─ Identical to Paul

3. If Mary became pregnant after marrying Joseph, could still Jesus become the Child if Mary got pregnant by Joseph?
Paul ─ Yes. Jesus' birth was the way Jesus entered the world of men from heaven, but apart from saying he was born in the line of David, he doesn't go into details, doesn't name Mary (or Joseph) at any point)
Mark ─ Yes, Jesus became the son of God by adoption, exactly as how David had become the son of God in Psalm 2:7
Matthew ─ Mary expressly became pregnant by the Holy Spirit, while still a virgin, so Jesus had God's Y-chromosome.
Luke ─ Same as Matthew
John ─ Identical to Paul.

4. Or what made Jesus Son of God, was only possible, when Jesus did not have a human father?
Paul ─ Apparently it was irrelevant that Jesus had a human father (see 3)
Mark ─ Jesus became son of God although born an ordinary Jewish human.
Matthew ─ Yes.
Luke ─ Yes.
John ─ Identical to Paul

So the answers depend on which Jesus you select.

Maybe in such cases, both yes and no, are correct depending if we are talking about the human nature of Jesus, or, divine nature of Jesus.

 

[blü 2]

Maybe in such cases, both yes and no, are correct depending if we are talking about the human nature of Jesus, or, divine nature of Jesus.

Hmm. I fear instead we're up against at least three completely different Christologies ─

the gnostic views of Paul and John (Jesus pre-existing in heaven, creating the material world, the demiurge role),

the adoption view of Mark, based on Psalm 2:7 (the only take on Jesus; origin that's seriously Jewish), and

the Greek idea of divine insemination in Matthew and Luke, propelled by the LXX translating Hebrew 'almah (young woman) as Greek parthenos, virgin, in Isaiah 7:14.

 

[moorea944]

So, what made Jesus Son of God?
1. He was Called son of God, because He was born from a virgin?
2. He was son of God, because God chose Him to be His son?
3. He was son of God, because His Spirit, was the Spirit of God?

What made him son of God was that he was born of the Father. Luke 1 v 35 tells us that God's Spirit went into Mary and overshadowed her, meaning God planted a seed in her to have a child. Because God was involved that child is to be the son of God. Scripture also tells us that this was in God's plans before He made the world. Scripture even tells us that God knew us before we were born. Look at Jeremiah 1v5, it tells us that God knew Jeremiah and "made him' a prophet before he was born. God uses this kind of language like it's already happened. Even Abraham. I will make thee a great nation, your seed will be many..... Abraham didnt even have a son yet. But by faith, Abraham knew God could do that.

Just like God also knew that Jesus would die before he was even born. It wasnt a punishment, it was out of love.